Many companies have expertise producing things, which are not needed at all in EVs. That means switching industries or let the company die and make as much money in the meantime as possible. Given how difficult it is to switch industries, many choose the later option. For them complaining is just logical.
The reason steam engines went went away was because of economics. Electric motors where more powerful, more efficient, fewer moving parts and less maintenance, can power up instantly and don’t need to heat up a boiler for an hour before it’s ready - so in short cheaper to run.
The problem I see with EVs in germany is that electricity costs are already high, and with extra fees on fast charging the price advantage is not there compared to petrol - at least not if you rely on public charging and don’t have a solar roof at home.
An EV is at 15-20kWh/100km so with 0.3€/kWh we are talking 4.5-6€/100km. Average petrol car is at 7.7l/100km. With prices of 1.6€/l we are talking 12.3€/100km. So about twice as much as an EV for home charging. With fast charging it would be about the same. The electric motor being less problematic is also true against a combustion engine. It should last longer, if built properly.
Also the reason EVs are more expensive is that there is a lack of cheap batteries. We currently see a lot of factories being built. This means lower battery prices and therefore lower EV prices. Some of the offers of BYD and the like are already very good.
I drive electric in Germany and I wish the price is what you claim. On a public charger it is >0,5€/kWh.
It’s up to >0,8€/kWh when they pull a quick one and charge you out of network prices - which is a constant danger when driving long distance.
It’s almost as bad as mobile roaming used to be before the EU stepped in. I’m not planning to go back but the pricing is fucked up. The price schemes need to be regulated.
But the price difference is not so extreme that people would scrap their petrol car for an new 20000 Euro or more EV overnight. It’s only important for people who drive a lot.
I have been looking into this as I’d like to switch. My current car needs roughly 6.5 liters of gas per 100km, gas where I live is around 1.70-1.80€/l, that’s around 11-11.70€/100km Somewhat reasonable EVs of similar size need something between 17-20 kWh/100 km, so break even should be between 55 - 68 cents/kWh.
Electricity at home is around 40 cents, so no solar roof required to save at least some money. (It’s actually more like 30-35 cents if you remember that you need to pay the monthly baseline anyway since you need power for your home).
Public charging heavily depends on the owner of the charger, but you can find AC charging below 60 cents. (I hope we’ll get some regulation against roaming costs between different companies at some point).
Fast charging is expensive and it depends on the individual use case if you need a lot of that. But gas on the highway is more expensive too, especially during holiday season (when a lot of people take longer trips).
But it’s true that the advantage isn’t as obvious as it should be, especially compared to the up front costs.
Who said that this is fine in general? The argument that electric vehicles are not competitive with petrol cars in Germany IF you use public charging stations only is kind of irrelevant if in reality 90% of charging cycles are done at home.
They did a long time ago. This is in fact a fight between the actual producers that want (and demanded for years) those legal guidelines and a mass of small specialised suppliers that didn’t care to (or actually couldn’t) change anything about their business model.
Most EVs still cost 10-20K more than their conventional counterparts. Most working class people simply cannot afford an EV, end of story. It has very little to do with “choice” and “awareness” or whatever.
Working class people rarely can afford new cars anyway and this ban targets initial registrations, not the already existing market of second hand cars.
Which is why I really hate that our local companies took so long to enter the EV market. Viable EVs are slowly entering the second hand market but it’s still a long way away from the combustible market.
Most EVs still cost 10-20K more than their conventional counterparts.
Which is entirely bullshit and partly caused by misplanning proper production numbers and mostly by just plain anti-EV propaganda that unneccessarily reduces demand by making you believe in actual desinformation.
From an economical perspective we knew for many years that EVs are actually cheaper once batteries fall under ~100$/kWh… Now go lookup battery costs…
Spoiler
~60$/kWh
And alas EVs are actually cheaper already (or are we trying to pretend that people -in particular those struggling to pay the costs- are paying them with available cash and not already financing them over years?).
Jesus Christ… You still have ten fucking years to go all electric. So instead of lamanting get to fucking work!
Many companies have expertise producing things, which are not needed at all in EVs. That means switching industries or let the company die and make as much money in the meantime as possible. Given how difficult it is to switch industries, many choose the later option. For them complaining is just logical.
Also oil companies.
The same was true for steam engines, they were not forbidden but the companies that only complained still went bankrupt.
The reason steam engines went went away was because of economics. Electric motors where more powerful, more efficient, fewer moving parts and less maintenance, can power up instantly and don’t need to heat up a boiler for an hour before it’s ready - so in short cheaper to run.
The problem I see with EVs in germany is that electricity costs are already high, and with extra fees on fast charging the price advantage is not there compared to petrol - at least not if you rely on public charging and don’t have a solar roof at home.
An EV is at 15-20kWh/100km so with 0.3€/kWh we are talking 4.5-6€/100km. Average petrol car is at 7.7l/100km. With prices of 1.6€/l we are talking 12.3€/100km. So about twice as much as an EV for home charging. With fast charging it would be about the same. The electric motor being less problematic is also true against a combustion engine. It should last longer, if built properly.
Also the reason EVs are more expensive is that there is a lack of cheap batteries. We currently see a lot of factories being built. This means lower battery prices and therefore lower EV prices. Some of the offers of BYD and the like are already very good.
I drive electric in Germany and I wish the price is what you claim. On a public charger it is >0,5€/kWh.
It’s up to >0,8€/kWh when they pull a quick one and charge you out of network prices - which is a constant danger when driving long distance.
It’s almost as bad as mobile roaming used to be before the EU stepped in. I’m not planning to go back but the pricing is fucked up. The price schemes need to be regulated.
Those are home charging prices.
I’m aware. Comparing home prices to gas stations is apples & pears though. Especially since most people won’t be able to charge at home.
Did you so far only drive short distance/commute or did you get to ‘enjoy’ the pricing schemes on fast chargers?
53% of charges are done at home, 15% at work and 32% at public chargers. 34% charge their car almost exclusivly with local solar.
But the price difference is not so extreme that people would scrap their petrol car for an new 20000 Euro or more EV overnight. It’s only important for people who drive a lot.
No, but it means that as soon as EVs and combustion engine cars cost the same, people will choose EVs. We are pretty close to that point.
I have been looking into this as I’d like to switch. My current car needs roughly 6.5 liters of gas per 100km, gas where I live is around 1.70-1.80€/l, that’s around 11-11.70€/100km Somewhat reasonable EVs of similar size need something between 17-20 kWh/100 km, so break even should be between 55 - 68 cents/kWh.
Electricity at home is around 40 cents, so no solar roof required to save at least some money. (It’s actually more like 30-35 cents if you remember that you need to pay the monthly baseline anyway since you need power for your home).
Public charging heavily depends on the owner of the charger, but you can find AC charging below 60 cents. (I hope we’ll get some regulation against roaming costs between different companies at some point).
Fast charging is expensive and it depends on the individual use case if you need a lot of that. But gas on the highway is more expensive too, especially during holiday season (when a lot of people take longer trips).
But it’s true that the advantage isn’t as obvious as it should be, especially compared to the up front costs.
Ok do you know a single person that relies on public charging for their ev? Cuz I don’t.
And do you think this is sustainable if we acknowledge the need to reach net 0 carbon?
How?
Who said that this is fine in general? The argument that electric vehicles are not competitive with petrol cars in Germany IF you use public charging stations only is kind of irrelevant if in reality 90% of charging cycles are done at home.
Of course it’s relevant. We need people who can’t charge at home (the vast majority) to switch to EVs.
They did a long time ago. This is in fact a fight between the actual producers that want (and demanded for years) those legal guidelines and a mass of small specialised suppliers that didn’t care to (or actually couldn’t) change anything about their business model.
Most EVs still cost 10-20K more than their conventional counterparts. Most working class people simply cannot afford an EV, end of story. It has very little to do with “choice” and “awareness” or whatever.
Working class people rarely can afford new cars anyway and this ban targets initial registrations, not the already existing market of second hand cars.
Which is why I really hate that our local companies took so long to enter the EV market. Viable EVs are slowly entering the second hand market but it’s still a long way away from the combustible market.
I just need an affordable family wagon.
this.
Which is entirely bullshit and partly caused by misplanning proper production numbers and mostly by just plain anti-EV propaganda that unneccessarily reduces demand by making you believe in actual desinformation.
From an economical perspective we knew for many years that EVs are actually cheaper once batteries fall under ~100$/kWh… Now go lookup battery costs…
Spoiler
~60$/kWh
And alas EVs are actually cheaper already (or are we trying to pretend that people -in particular those struggling to pay the costs- are paying them with available cash and not already financing them over years?).
You need a bigger calculator.
Sure, the purchase price is somewhat higher, but if you look at all the costs in the lifespan of the vehicle, the EVs are cheaper.
Working class people can’t afford not to buy EVs.
End of story? Where is the fucking story?
The car companies need to make them more affordable.