• plyth@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    why would you think we are strong enough to enforce our will onto, i.a., China and the US?

    Why do we have to enforce our will?

    Do you have the same problem with the EU helping China win against the US as you have with the EU helping the US win against China?

    Yes. If one wins, they will rule the world according to their values.

    With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world. With the US, I have less hope that they do all this for fair global free trade without monopolies.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      Why do we have to enforce our will?

      Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

      With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world.

      What do you base that assumption on?

      • plyth@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

        That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced.

        What do you base that assumption on?

        There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.

        • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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          2 months ago

          That’s why we need both

          Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

          There is always a chance

          That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

          • plyth@feddit.org
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            2 months ago

            but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

            slight hope

            That’s ok for me.

            Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

            What leverage do we have?

            If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

            • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              What leverage do we have?

              You said we have none.

              If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

              What will they force each other and how will they do it?

              • plyth@feddit.org
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                1 month ago

                You said we have none.

                And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them?

                What will they force each other and how will they do it?

                They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

                • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                  1 month ago

                  How do you want to force them?

                  …to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

                  They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

                  …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

                  • plyth@feddit.org
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                    1 month ago

                    Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

                    I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

                    …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others.

                    Yes

                    The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

                    By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.