• Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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    1 month ago

    How do you want to force them?

    …to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

    They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

    …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

    • plyth@feddit.org
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      1 month ago

      Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

      I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

      …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others.

      Yes

      The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

      By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

      • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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        1 month ago

        I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

        You said: We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.

        To which I said: To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

        By pressuring others?

        Instead of only being pressured by the others (China + US), yes.

        How do we get dominant?

        First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

        You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

        I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

        • plyth@feddit.org
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          1 month ago

          To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

          Both want to win, both don’t want to be in balance. Would it be force to keep them in balance?

          First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

          Dominant means being stronger than the other two. That doesn’t change much, so no.

          I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

          Then have a look at the finances.

          • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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            1 month ago

            Both want to win

            The opposite of the “multi-polar world” you envision.

            both don’t want to be in balance. Would it be force to keep them in balance?

            If you want something they don’t want (as you said yourself), you’d have to force them.

            Dominant means being stronger than the other two.

            It means aspiring being stronger than the other two. Or at least equal. Not giving up the fight. Is that something you aspire?

            Then have a look at the finances.

            I did. And to be honest, I wish you’d too instead of stopping after the headline. The Draghi report you’re referring to states that 800b ought to be invested yearly to ensure competitiveness and to overcome the weakness in financial investments you consider an obstacle. It further lays out a plan how to achieve that and also states that these investments are well within the scope achievable for Europe. It also describes the problems concerning too much funds flowing into the US currently and how to address that. Now, I’m sure you’ll find a multitude of other reasons why you think it still isn’t possible, but then we’re also back at the “will” problem. Why is it you don’t want it to work?