• plyth@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 month ago

    You said we have none.

    And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them?

    What will they force each other and how will they do it?

    They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 month ago

      How do you want to force them?

      …to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

      They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

      …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

      • plyth@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

        I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

        …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others.

        Yes

        The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

        By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

        • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

          You said: We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.

          To which I said: To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

          By pressuring others?

          Instead of only being pressured by the others (China + US), yes.

          How do we get dominant?

          First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

          You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

          I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

          • plyth@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 month ago

            To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

            Both want to win, both don’t want to be in balance. Would it be force to keep them in balance?

            First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

            Dominant means being stronger than the other two. That doesn’t change much, so no.

            I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

            Then have a look at the finances.

            • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 month ago

              Both want to win

              The opposite of the “multi-polar world” you envision.

              both don’t want to be in balance. Would it be force to keep them in balance?

              If you want something they don’t want (as you said yourself), you’d have to force them.

              Dominant means being stronger than the other two.

              It means aspiring being stronger than the other two. Or at least equal. Not giving up the fight. Is that something you aspire?

              Then have a look at the finances.

              I did. And to be honest, I wish you’d too instead of stopping after the headline. The Draghi report you’re referring to states that 800b ought to be invested yearly to ensure competitiveness and to overcome the weakness in financial investments you consider an obstacle. It further lays out a plan how to achieve that and also states that these investments are well within the scope achievable for Europe. It also describes the problems concerning too much funds flowing into the US currently and how to address that. Now, I’m sure you’ll find a multitude of other reasons why you think it still isn’t possible, but then we’re also back at the “will” problem. Why is it you don’t want it to work?