• plyth@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

    That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced.

    What do you base that assumption on?

    There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      That’s why we need both

      Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

      There is always a chance

      That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

      • plyth@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

        slight hope

        That’s ok for me.

        Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

        What leverage do we have?

        If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

        • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          What leverage do we have?

          You said we have none.

          If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

          What will they force each other and how will they do it?

          • plyth@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 month ago

            You said we have none.

            And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them?

            What will they force each other and how will they do it?

            They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

            • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 month ago

              How do you want to force them?

              …to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

              They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.

              …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

              • plyth@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 month ago

                Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.

                I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

                …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others.

                Yes

                The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.

                By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

                • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 month ago

                  I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.

                  You said: We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.

                  To which I said: To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

                  By pressuring others?

                  Instead of only being pressured by the others (China + US), yes.

                  How do we get dominant?

                  First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

                  You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.

                  I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

                  • plyth@feddit.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 month ago

                    To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.

                    Both want to win, both don’t want to be in balance. Would it be force to keep them in balance?

                    First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?

                    Dominant means being stronger than the other two. That doesn’t change much, so no.

                    I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.

                    Then have a look at the finances.