bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works to Europe@feddit.orgEnglish · 2 months agoEurope’s Sleepwalk Years: How Merkel’s Calm Stalled a Continentroknablue.wordpress.comexternal-linkmessage-square190fedilinkarrow-up158arrow-down118
arrow-up140arrow-down1external-linkEurope’s Sleepwalk Years: How Merkel’s Calm Stalled a Continentroknablue.wordpress.combestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works to Europe@feddit.orgEnglish · 2 months agomessage-square190fedilink
minus-squareQuittenbrot@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up2·2 months ago Why do we have to enforce our will? Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power. With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world. What do you base that assumption on?
minus-squareplyth@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·edit-22 months ago Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power. That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced. What do you base that assumption on? There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.
minus-squareQuittenbrot@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up2·2 months ago That’s why we need both Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them. There is always a chance That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.
minus-squareplyth@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·2 months ago but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you. slight hope That’s ok for me. Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them. What leverage do we have? If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.
minus-squareQuittenbrot@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·1 month ago What leverage do we have? You said we have none. If they force each other, we don’t have to force them. What will they force each other and how will they do it?
minus-squareplyth@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·1 month ago You said we have none. And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them? What will they force each other and how will they do it? They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.
minus-squareQuittenbrot@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·1 month ago How do you want to force them? …to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer. They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage. …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.
minus-squareplyth@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·1 month ago Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer. I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them. …and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. Yes The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves. By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.
minus-squareQuittenbrot@feddit.orglinkfedilinkEnglisharrow-up1·1 month ago I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them. You said: We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world. To which I said: To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it. By pressuring others? Instead of only being pressured by the others (China + US), yes. How do we get dominant? First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances. I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.
Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.
What do you base that assumption on?
That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced.
There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.
Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.
That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.
That’s ok for me.
What leverage do we have?
If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.
You said we have none.
What will they force each other and how will they do it?
And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them?
They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.
…to achieve what you want? Nah, that’s a question you’ll have to answer.
…and they’ll try to achieve that by pressure and dominance on others. The only way for Europe to stay out of that is to become dominant themselves.
I say we have to keep them in balance with the help of the rest of the world. You say we have to force them.
Yes
By pressuring others? How do we get dominant? You have seen the limits of Europe’s finances.
You said: We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.
To which I said: To negotiate something that the others don’t want, Europe would need to force it.
Instead of only being pressured by the others (China + US), yes.
First step: by choosing to be dominant. Are you willing?
I have only seen that you think we cannot do it.