• plyth@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    Because according to you, our only perspective is to be used by other nations.

    We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world. But that won’t happen if we decouple from China. I can’t remember that I have said that we have to be used by China.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.

      If you think we are too weak to be independent, why would you think we are strong enough to enforce our will onto, i.a., China and the US?

      But again:

      Do you have the same problem with the EU helping China win against the US as you have with the EU helping the US win against China?

      • plyth@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        why would you think we are strong enough to enforce our will onto, i.a., China and the US?

        Why do we have to enforce our will?

        Do you have the same problem with the EU helping China win against the US as you have with the EU helping the US win against China?

        Yes. If one wins, they will rule the world according to their values.

        With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world. With the US, I have less hope that they do all this for fair global free trade without monopolies.

        • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          Why do we have to enforce our will?

          Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

          With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world.

          What do you base that assumption on?

          • plyth@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

            That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced.

            What do you base that assumption on?

            There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.

            • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              That’s why we need both

              Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

              There is always a chance

              That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

              • plyth@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

                slight hope

                That’s ok for me.

                Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

                What leverage do we have?

                If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

                • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 month ago

                  What leverage do we have?

                  You said we have none.

                  If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.

                  What will they force each other and how will they do it?

                  • plyth@feddit.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 month ago

                    You said we have none.

                    And you said that we have to force them. How do you want to force them?

                    What will they force each other and how will they do it?

                    They will try to stay competitive in all fields and thus prevent the other to have an advantage.