• plyth@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    How much Earth will be left after a full-on nuclear war?

    “According to a peer-reviewed study published in the journal Nature Food in August 2022,[20] a full-scale nuclear war between the United States and Russia, which together hold more than 90% of the world’s nuclear weapons, would kill 360 million people directly and more than 5 billion indirectly by starvation during a nuclear winter.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter

    I guess the US has enough soy beans now, and corn anyway, to survive during the first years.

    This gives the US the leverage to use the EU to beat China.

    Which is what you don’t want? What about the other way round?

    Which leverage does the EU have?

    Which other way, btw? There are several possible combinations.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      “According to a peer-reviewed study published in the journal Nature Food in August 2022,[20] a full-scale nuclear war between the United States and Russia, which together hold more than 90% of the world’s nuclear weapons, would kill 360 million people directly and more than 5 billion indirectly by starvation during a nuclear winter.”

      Doesn’t really sound like a “win” to me.

      I guess the US has enough soy beans now, and corn anyway, to survive during the first years.

      You said that China could win by nuking Europe first.

      Which other way, btw? There are several possible combinations.

      China using the EU to beat the US.

      Because according to you, our only perspective is to be used by other nations.

      • plyth@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        Because according to you, our only perspective is to be used by other nations.

        We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world. But that won’t happen if we decouple from China. I can’t remember that I have said that we have to be used by China.

        • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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          2 months ago

          We could also try to negotiate an actual multi-polar world.

          If you think we are too weak to be independent, why would you think we are strong enough to enforce our will onto, i.a., China and the US?

          But again:

          Do you have the same problem with the EU helping China win against the US as you have with the EU helping the US win against China?

          • plyth@feddit.org
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            2 months ago

            why would you think we are strong enough to enforce our will onto, i.a., China and the US?

            Why do we have to enforce our will?

            Do you have the same problem with the EU helping China win against the US as you have with the EU helping the US win against China?

            Yes. If one wins, they will rule the world according to their values.

            With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world. With the US, I have less hope that they do all this for fair global free trade without monopolies.

            • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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              2 months ago

              Why do we have to enforce our will?

              Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

              With China, there is the slight hope that they actualky mean to implement a multipolar world.

              What do you base that assumption on?

              • plyth@feddit.org
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                2 months ago

                Because the others are only interested in dominating trade by power.

                That’s why we need both, and the goodwill of the rest of the world, to keep them balanced.

                What do you base that assumption on?

                There is always a chance, and unlike the US, they haven’t spent a decade or more wasting their power.

                • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                  2 months ago

                  That’s why we need both

                  Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

                  There is always a chance

                  That’s not really the strongest basis to build an assumption on, but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

                  • plyth@feddit.org
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                    2 months ago

                    but if you want to keep dreaming, I’ll let you.

                    slight hope

                    That’s ok for me.

                    Do you understand? Neither China nor the US are interested in what you envision. The only way to make them support that is by us forcing them.

                    What leverage do we have?

                    If they force each other, we don’t have to force them.