Didn’t UK announce their surveillance of Gaza as early as 2023? How is this some “gotcha” moment other than confirming what they’ve already stated 2 years ago…
Their own mission statement was to help identify where hostages were being held. So unless there’s any real evidence of other types of damning intelligence sharing going on that was undisclosed. This isn’t even news.
And certainly not “evidence of war crimes”
No the UK his what they were doing ans turned off their transponders above Gaza. Because they likely have video evidence of the IDF massacaring the WFK workers.
Despite what you may believe. It’s not common practise for military airplanes to fly with transponders on during a mission.
It wasn’t a secret that they flew over Gaza.
There is no need to lie. Just open Google and do a single search about this subject.
Where is the lie?
The UK is incredibly secretive and lied about it multiple tines.
I’m confused. How is this a war crime.
Leaving a fingerprint isn’t illegal but a fingerprint on a knife inside someone is evidence for a murder trial.
The genocide would be the war crime.
The UK was caught directly participating in the operations, so they are helping a country that is not their ally commit a genocide without declaring war on Palestine themselves.
Well no they weren’t, they were “caught” flying a plane over Gaza. Going from that to “directly participating in the operations” is a conclusion you are drawing which seems plausible, even likely, but is not directly supported by a British plane doing loops over Gaza.
Yeah the conspiracy tinfoil hat here is really reaching. X.com us such a cancer platform that I don’t expec4 any brain cells there.
But the twit says it’s a us company that does this. For Israel. How is the UK even involved?
The UK used to run the flights themselves with their own military spy planes. They argued that this would strictly be for hostage rescue. Given that they spent hours circling Gaza daily and live-streaming any and all information to the Israelis for almost two years, a time in which not even a hand full of hostages were recovered by military means, that seems a big lie.
Now as the UK feels pressured to stop their direct involvement, they are instead paying American private contractors with UK taxpayer money, to do the dirty work for them. We now have the evidence as those were too stupid to turn their transponders off. Before that Matt Kennard could only verify multiple spy planes taking off and landing from and towards Gaza at the UK army base in Cyprus daily. But they turned off their transponders once they came close to the coast of Palestine.
EDIT: See for instance
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/gaza-spying-us-news-lp90mz062
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250808-us-based-contractor-hired-by-uk-to-continue-spy-flights-over-gaza/
Oh honey…
You know that isn’t true :/
The Israli military wouldn’t allow a UK military plane to do that if they weren’t in on it.
It’s not the UK’s air space
Obviously Israel has allowed “sweetie” but that doesnt mean that the UK is giving them intel on how to bomb Gazans. They might be, but you cant tell if they are or not based solely on a plane flying there.
You’re right they probably just felt like flying around for the majority of the genocide in the airspace they needed to negotiate access to with no strings attached.
You honestly come off as a troll, but i know you’re probably just a UK tankie.
Its pretty funny that you’re the one reflexively assuming that because a western country is doing something it can only be the worst possible thing, and yet you’re calling me a tankie.
Whether the UK is materially contributing to the genocide in Garza or not is not sufficiently demonstrable by the evidence provided here.
I’d agree with you that in all likelihood the spy planes are a tip of the iceberg sort of thing but neither of us have evidence to prove that. Planes flying around gaza is insufficient evidence.
Is it repugnant that the uk likely knows better than most normal people what’s going on and is doing nothing to stop it? Yes. Is it deplorable that they’re clamping down on dissent about it? Yes.
Are they materially contributing to the ongoing genocide? Yeah. But that has nothing to do with a plane flying over gaza. Are they actively participating? Neither of us have any idea. Or if we do this information is not sufficient to prove it.
It’s shady as fuck. It’s worth being pissed off about. But unless someone here has evidence about what the planes are actually doing it’s just speculation.
There are plenty of countries that spy on wars they’re not directly participating in.
Israel does a lot of things, but I don’t think they would shoot down a UK military aircraft over Gaza.
lol why not? what happens then? same thing that happens if they shoot UK aid workers?
Not exactly, it’s a lot harder to claim “my bad” when Hamas doesn’t have an air force
that would almost be valid if they weren’t at war with everyone around them. they’ll just say AI said it was an Iranian plane. if that.
actually satanyahu could just come out and say “yeah we shot it because we didn’t like the way it looked, so be more careful next time you tea-gargling cuntbags” and nothing would change.
Israel is a colonialist project and the colonialists will support it no matter what. they’ll happily sacrifice their own people to keep it up.
Ok now we’re pretending the UK got away with illegally trespassing another country’s air space with military craft and nobody complained about it?
Keep moving the bar lol
By that logic anyone recording video in Gaza is participating in genocide by publishing video online that would be analysed by Israeli intelligence.
If that someone were being paid to record video by intelligence agencies to analyse, as is the case here, then yes.
You intentionally misunderstanding the situation is not working here.
You understand the difference between a journalist reporting to a global news agency and the UK military feeding secret surveillance data to another military that they are not publicly helping.
I never said journalists. The UK military could be feeding intelligence to the Israeli military or they could be independently verifying statements from Israel. Someone with a camera in Gaza could be reporting on war in Gaza or could be feeding Israeli intelligence.
All we see is a UK military aircraft flying in circles over Gaza (probably) taking in areal intelligence. That is such a far cry away from evidence of the UK’s involvement in the genocide in Gaza.
You literally refrenced journalists who post the truth online
Bad faith lazy troll.
Blocked
that makes no sense
By your logic you’re a war criminal by talking about it. Off to The Hague with you, dipshit.
By the post’s logic as well.
Brother do you want to rethink that logic? Maybe try a different argument? This one’s busted.
Blows dust off
They got Al-Capone for TAX EVASION!
Haunting laughter of long dead studio audience
A war crime isn’t a single act but rather a pattern of behavior that has many pieces of evidence.
Don’t bury the lede it absolutely can also be one act
Palestine Action was right to damage British planes. I hope they do it again, and again, and again, until Palestine is free.
I support Palestine Action!!!
I would say that too, except I’d get arrested if I did, so I won’t. Do you hear me, lawyers? Officially speaking I do not support Palestine action.
UK government officials who back the designation and arrests of supporters deserve to be strapped to an AA battery and composted over a field.
I think you’d want to use a 9V, at the very least, on their tongue. AA doesn’t do enough unless you get some weird configurations going… the shells just aren’t enough these days. Damn duracell cutting corners.
What about Pal’s End Stein, totally a new rumored item for Pal’s World?
I thought it was a German phrase: Paul ist ein achtung!
I think Palestine Action chose the planes they damaged because they were in some kind of weird military contractor sublease, which was tied to refueling capability for some certain set of aircraft unsupported by their other aerial refueling systems.
You are correct. Those planes were being used directly to support the genocide.
“evidence for a war crimes trial”
I do so love the liberal idea that there’s such a thing as “law.”
The only way we’re going to end the richest countries supporting the most openly genocidal country is if we cut off the funding that is making all of this profitable. There’s no one, simple “boycott target” we just all have to get better about not pouring money in our country’s corporations and monoliths who are always trying to make line go up.
Stop spending money on things like food delivery, fast food, games, movies, electronics and gadgets you don’t need. Start hoarding the wealth away from the liches and oligarchs. Back up your activism by taking away the thing they want most.
I’d like to point out the booming indie games market that is a great place to waste money and support artists (like me not biased or anything)
I’d personally like a non cut off screenshot at the very least if there’s going to be accusations of British war crimes
There is no such thing as law, you see. You can cut off whatever screenshot you want, nobody can stop you. For example, the guy you responded to comitted a war crime. Here’s the screenshot about it.
Your flavor today is illegalism, is it? That’s new.
No, I’m spreading misinformation online, it’s not illegal, highly encouraged even
Hang all of those government officials and agents who were “just following orders.” Hunt them down the same way the world hunted down Nazi camp guards.
Hang all of those government officials and agents who were “just following orders.”
At a dinner meeting of the Big Three on Nov. 29, Stalin proposed executing 50,000 to 100,000 German officers so that Germany could not plan another war. Roosevelt, believing Stalin was not serious, quipped that “maybe 49,000 would be enough.”
Churchill, however, was outraged and denounced “the cold-blooded execution of soldiers who fought for their country.” Before storming out of the room, he said that only war criminals should be put on trial. Stalin brought him back after saying that he was only joking.
Churchill’s only motivation for joining the war was that he couldn’t stand the idea of someone being a bigger asshole than himself.
I’m guessing the word “unless” was floating around Stalin’s head at the time.
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That’s one German officer for every 60-120 murdered Jews. What number should Stalin have suggested?
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Stalin executing millions of his own people
A claim used in Der Angriff to justify the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. Germans were the original “We will be greated as liberators” guys.
Nice of you to have your Nazi propaganda memorized.
I agree that Israel bad, but can someone explain what the war crime is here? I’m not asking as a gotcha, just confused
UK is running spy flights for Israel, or now contracting them out to US mercenaries, to help Israel turn Gaza into rubble and mass slaughter Civilians. The UK claimed it would be solely for hostage rescue, but there was hardly any hostages recovered by military means and certainly no daily attempts at rescuing hostages, but Britain provided intel daily for the past almost two years.
The UK government said they stopped their flights amid mounting pressure, but that was just a lie as they contracted it out instead to distance themselves, which also indicates that they know exactly which crimes they have been and are supporting.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/gaza-spying-us-news-lp90mz062
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250808-us-based-contractor-hired-by-uk-to-continue-spy-flights-over-gaza/Additionaly: how is the UK involved in a US company flying over Gaza gathering intelligence for Israel.
Like, fuck Israel and their genocidal leadership, but I fail to see the logic of this post.
The UK military is hiring US mercenaries to continue their spy operation
So basically the UK outsourced intelligence gathering to a US contractor, while pretending they had stopped? That sounds like an attempt to avoid accountability rather than a real change of policy.
So alleged financing of surveillance is… war crime evidence? Even without the starvation and actual munitions deliveries, this would be weak as hell.
You know there is footage of soldiers firing on civilians like every day of the week, right?
Aiding a country doing war crimes is a war crime, yes
Well then war crimes are just pointless. Every single NATO country that helped USA in the middle east are by association, guilty of warcrimes. If everyone is guilty of warcrimes and noone gets punished for it, warcrimes don’t matter.
I mean, the world is a fucked up place, and a lot of evil people are in charge. That’s one reason why people point out when countries do war crimes though, to point out the hypocrisy and to make sure people understand the fucked up things their countries do. You shouldn’t be getting upset at the people pointing out was crimes when war crimes are committed, you should be getting upset at the countries committing war crimes.
I’m not getting upset at the people pointing it out, I’m saying that guilty by simply aiding a country makes the whole warcrimes thing pointless.
The genocide would be the war crime.
The UK was caught directly participating in the operations, so they are helping a country that is not their ally commit a genocide without declaring war on Palestine themselves.
It’s charming how the news media still calls it a war, even though traditionally a war in two sides fighting.
The Israelis are in a war to preserve their existence against the threat of Palestinians continuing to have children at normal historical rates while Israel itself becomes a glorified retirement home.
The Palestinians are doing irreparable harm to the Jewish People by staying alive and protecting their children with hopes of seeing a future generation survive and thrive. The existence of The Hamas Ideology of not liking Israel must not persist for another generation.
I think insurance companies would agree with you in calling it something else. Police action or maybe the emergency
Are there not two sides fighting? Israel vs Hamas; neither side has surrendered.
I will assume you hasn’t been following what is happening. Israel is not killing Hamas, based on their own leaked estimate 80% of those who killed are innocent people. Children in tent getting blown up, as well as sick people in hospitals and christian in church is a good example of why this is not a war. It is a genocide.
That’s a different problem, and both statements are true.
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There is a war between two entities, Israel and Hamas.
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Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.
One doesn’t negate the other.
There’s a third fact: Israel has slowly annexed Palestine ever since it was established
ETA: “it was established” means Israel, just in case it wasn’t clear
Throw in the fact that Palestinians had non violent protests for more than a year prior to this “heating up” where people were being gunned down just for holding a flag with no weapons on them… it wasn’t one or two either, it was a lot.
Then look at the attacks on Palestinian homes, villages leading up to October.
Then the people saying they gave Israel the Intel that something was going to happen on October 7th, and Israel’s own military members stating they got an unusual order to not patrol that section on that day which had never happened for them before… And it all starts to look like Israel attacking and expanding their territory, hearing about a counter attack and using it for PR to do a full scale invasion in a way the public would accept outside of Israel.
“According to the UN, between 2006 and October 7, 2023, 5,365 Palestinians were killed and nearly 63,000 injured, and 170 Israelis were killed with more than 4,000 injured in Gaza or Israel proper.”
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
Right, that is what I was trying to say.
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I mean, to be frank, I can’t remember any actual news of fighting between Israel and Hamas. The last ones were maybe a year ago- if I am wrong, please correct me. Instead, all the news are ‘Israel indiscriminately killing everybody with 0 casualties of their own’. Isn’t really a war anymore. Maybe it was for a bit at the beginning, but Hamas and all its allies were decimated within the first year and a half of it. They are more or less undone from what I gather. All that is left is genocide now. I really struggle to call it a ‘war’ while Ukraine VS Russia is happening where both sides are taking heavy losses and the outcome is uncertain. With Israel, the outcome is pretty clear and certain- eradicating or displacing all Palestinians. They don’t even pretend it’s about Hamas anymore, because Hamas and it’s allies are mostly gone and/or crippled.
The most recent news I could find was from yesterday, Hamas killed a few Israeli soldiers with mortar fire in Al-Zaytoun.
Was this necessary intelligence for shooting people at food distribution lines?
It seems that not all hospitals are fully destroyed.
America showing its acceptance of genocide and its incompetence
This is what happens when you cheap out on foreign contractors
I believe the U.S. was definitely accepting it, but I doubt they can tell the Royal Air Force from the U.K. to not show their data
A colonizer always takes good care of its colony?
Famously so. That’s why you were much better of living in Hong Kong in 1949 than the bulk of mainland China. The colony becomes the vehicle for exporting wealth from the interior.
Quite a few HK liberals will protest Chinese rule by waving British (and American) flags. And a small but vocal faction even periodically demand that Hong Kong be returned to the UK.
Incidentally, the economy of Hong Kong has significantly lagged the rest of the Chinese mainland, in no small part because it has lost its position as an exclusive export hub to the wealthy capitalist countries. This has further increased the ahem economic anxiety of Hong Kong natives and fueled waves of protest (most notably the 2019 Umbrella Protests). Without its colonial status, Hong Kong is just another Chinese port city. Still disproportionately wealthy, but no longer this extravagantly rich financialized bottleneck.
For that kind of privilege, you need to move to Singapore.
I mean easy to see why HK people would prefer the former status to the current.
US foreign policy has been terrible for generations. It’s shit like this that makes me scream “BOTH SIDES”, but our two party system always makes people stick to their team.
Both sides, yes, but one side is still WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY worse than the other.
Hesitant as I am to open this can of worms, this always strikes me as saying something like “My manager is way nicer than the HR department. They’re the only people who have ever fired anyone”
Like, I guess it is true in a sense? But they are the same. It’s not that one is worse or better. One is the designated executor of the intentions that they both share. This allows the executor to look worse, for the exact purpose of maintaining morale among the team and keeping them playing by the manager’s rules.
It’s like, if both my mom and my dad think that I should be beaten for lying about my grades, and they both secretly decide that mom should be the one to beat me. Is dad way better than mom? Not really. Mom is just doing the dirty work so Dad can keep his hands clean. Then when I get beat I don’t decide to run away, because I think “at least Dad isn’t so bad, at least Dad doesn’t beat me”. But Dad does beat me in any sense that matters, he just beats me via the proxy of Mom. You could even say Dad is worse, because he’s not only complicit in the beating, but he also conceals his true nature to prevent me from escaping the situation.
What’s missing from your analogy is that if you try to run away and fail, your mom will beat you even more - and both your parents spent their whole lives rigging the house so you wouldn’t get away. And if you manage to, any other person you talk to in the street will turn out to be an undercover security officer who will take you back to the house.
It is 100% a hostage situation - you either let them have their way and accept a miserable life, or they force their way and you live a miserable and painful life.
Of course the ideal solution is to get away. But how? Simply trying to walk out the front door every 4 years is not really working.
You get all your siblings to band together and beat mom and dad’s ass. Organization is the only way to defeat tyranny from the inside.
Not all that much on this issue. They’re both maximum bad. Neither Biden nor starmer is worse than the conservatives on this issue. Empty gestures aside. Obviously the Republicans and Torries are fucking cunts, I presume I can say that on Lemmy here.
Maybe in the past, they are pretty much the same these days.
our two party system always makes people stick to their team
If you support the liberal ideology then Republicans will bend over backwards to destroy your municipal infrastructure, impoverish your neighborhoods, and send in the police to beat, imprison, and kill your children largely out of bigotry and spite.
If you support the conservative ideology then Democrats will continue feeding bits of your corner of the country into a giant Wall Street shaped de-industrialization meat grinder while half-heartedly waving an LGBTQ flag. Then they’ll call you racist for telling them to stop. Also, they send in the police to beat, imprison, and kill your children. Not because you’re conservative. Just because cops need something to do with all their free time.
Idk about you, but I can’t be a part of one of these systems. It’s unconscionable! So I need to be a member of the other.
I agree, but this data is being reported as from the UK’s actions, not the US according to picture. I would have expected both though
If you are going to be the Bitch, be the whole bitch.
If your goal is to protect Israeli hegemony in the middle east, stand by that position.
Don’t try and gaslight people who know better.
It’s insane how almost every western country is bending over backwards supporting this genocide in some way while also being extremely embarrassed about it.
It’s a part of the neoliberal solution to crimes againt humanity. First, you do it but deny you’re doing it. Then, once you’re finished (or made to finish) you admit that you did it and it was really bad. Like really bad and you feel just awful about it. Next, you state the time for justice must wait for a fairer season, as it could drum up bad blood and potentially ignite new conflicts. Finally, after some time has passed, you declare that too much time has passed and justice needed to be done sooner, for now we can no longer punish the perpetrators and would just punish innocents caught in the way(who still have the benefits from whatever their parents did).
Huzzah! We did it kids! Society progressed and everyone is treated fairly now! /s
Don’t try and gaslight people who know better.
Gaslighting is how you control a population that’s largely in the dark. “No, we’re not actually supporting Israel. Only the far-left wackos and the Russian anti-UK agitators are saying that.”
Now that this news has leaked you’ll get some rebuttal of “Yes, of course we were helping Israel. That’s not news at all. But we were helping them kill the terrorists. Only a Muslim Extremist Antisemite would complain about us protecting innocent Israelis from Radical Islamic Extremism.”
Westerners: Are we the baddies?
All global superpowers are led by evil war criminals.
In recent history the West has had more global super powers so that’s a lot of evil Western war criminals.
Big “ALL lives matter!” energy.
Both sides have baddies. Strong baddies on the israeli side. Weaker baddies on the palestinian side. Both have puppets and puppet masters playing them against another to further their agendas.
Then you have the poor sods in the middle who want nothing to do with the conflict, desperately trying not to be involved.
I think we can say that Israel is worse than Hamas since Hamas has never committed a genocide on the scale that Israel is currently and the West is at best complicit and at worst actively funding it.
Yes Israel is worse due to the power imbalance.
What would Hamas do if they had the power of Israel. I doubt many can argue they would be better.
And if my grandma had wheels she would have been a bike. What difference does it make what they would do in a hypothetical scenario?
People like you said the same thing about apartheid South Africa.
That situation had significant differences. The power balance was not skewed as far as it is with Israel. And there was no religious hate driving the conflict. External powers were also not fueling the conflict to the same level.
Where it was similar was how the conflict was used by weak men to maintain their priveledged positions. Once the two parties negotiated how the weak men on both sides, were going to keep sharing the spoils, the conflict got resolved. Remember when Israel and the palastinian authority where starting to gain some traction in negoriations, Hamas took power. That would not have been possible without the religious indoctrination and external interference from Israel and the US.
I have been living in South Africa my whole life, was discrimination against by the apartheid regime and now by the new government using many of the same race based tools to maintain a political elite at the cost of the average South African.
Ah, so you don’t just “both sides” the Palestinian genocide, you also do it to Apartheid South Africa.
You going to do the US Civil War too?
Conflicts are rarely one sided, if ever.
Just because one side is bad, does not make the other side good.
Believing otherwise is just naive, or based on ignorance.
Do you think the firebombing of dresden in WW2 was justified because the Nazi’s were worse?
Considering the entire East is supporting Russia’s genocide in Ukraine, I’m going to say “we’re not the only ones”.
China and North Korea are the entire East?
Where do Japan and South Korea stand?
India’s purchase of oil from Russia amounts to less than all the trade that the EU does with Russia and a lot of that isn’t even for a vital resource. It’s also purchased within a price cap framework set by the West and economists globally agree that someone needs to buy Russian oil or oil prices will skyrocket due to reduced supply.
I wouldn’t see this as supporting the war unless you feel that the EU also supports Russia.
I don’t think this can be painted as a simple West vs East issue.
And if we’re going to talk about genocide I can think of one that most genocide scholars agree upon that happens to be heavily (if not solely) funded by the West.
Putin can freely set foot in the US, China, Orban’s Hungary and… you guess: the good friend India.
Anywhere in the EU; he would been arrested and investigated for crime against humanity thanks to ICC agreement. But it’s not all fine in the EU: fascist governments like Orban and Meloni are fighting back the ICC because they want to be free to “friendly host” criminals exactly like US, China and India are doing.
Who else would be jailed up and investigated for war crimes by ICC?
Netanyahu.
That’s a wonderful sentiment but maybe they need to put their money where their mouth is and cease all trade with Russia if they’re serious about it.
What’s happening in the Ukraine is evil and fucked up but it’s war, not genocide.
This isn’t to cheapen the damage Russia has done nor excuse their actions but genocide has a distinct meaning.
Wikipedia (emphasis mine):
Legal definition of genocide
The 1948 Genocide Convention defines genocide as any of five ‘acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group’.[14][15] The acts in question include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. [14] Genocide is a crime of special intent (dolus specialis); it is carried out deliberately, with victims targeted based on real or perceived membership in a protected group.[15] The genocides recognised under the 1948 legal definition that led to trials in international criminal tribunals are the Cambodian genocide, the Rwandan genocide, and the Srebrenica massacre.[11]
Given that Ukrainian children are being captured and indoctrinated, and it’s hard to see Putin being happy with the existence of the nation itself as anything but a suzerainty, it feels like we’re ticking enough boxes not to clutch any pearls about applying the word “genocide”.
It sucks to know that there are multiple concurrent genocides, some more intense than others, that are being treated way differently because of racism and money in politics. But it doesn’t diminish the crimes of, e.g., Israel to call Russia’s aggression also genocide.
Your definition isn’t wrong. That’s also why what Russia is doing isn’t genocide.
That things have been done, or as you’re saying MAY be done may apply to aspects of what is in actuality a horribly misguided war, does not mean it satisfies the criteria for fenocide.
Like. You understand that when you bold things that the stuff that you did not bold is still there right?
The war is horribly misguided, evil, and appalling but it is a war. War crimes have certainly been committed but not on the scale necessary to classify it as genocide, nor with the demonstrable intent to eliminate the Ukrainian people entirely.
Your cherry picking of the definition would mean that all war is genocide. Which, if you believe that, fine, but don’t be intellectually dishonest about it.
According to multiple national governments,[20][21][22] international organisations,[23] independent experts and media outlets,[24][25][26] Russia and its ally Belarus are committing genocide against the Ukrainian people as part of the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
https://unric.org/en/international-court-of-justice-ukraine-v-russia/
You might have missed the bit where genocide is any of the five things? It says it right there.
It doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t be happening and we can’t stop it by bickering.
Whataboutism
Goddamn Americans again.
