So, your projection is that Harris would have done the same as the Trump admin? Like a “Harris Tower Hotel” in Gaza City, with the involvement of Harris’s family members in the deal?
Even the Biden administration was putting pressure on Israel to stop. They should have forced them, but they didn’t. There was at least a disapproval of their actions.
Trump basically gave them the green light and said do it faster please.
Harris would not have stopped the genocide. There’s no genocide light. It’s either you’re complicit in genocide or not. Trump is objectively a horrible person and I would have never voted for him but that doesn’t make Harris not a genocide supporter.
At best, Harris would have been no better for the people of Palestine than trump. And trump is demonstrably worse for basically the entire rest of the world (pretty sure Harris wouldn’t be threatening war on Denmark/the EU, for example).
So… your lack of a vote (which is effectively a vote for trump when you math it out) did absolutely nothing for the people you claim to care about while actively hurting everyone else.
People have different values, and they approach voting differently. You vote based on utilitarian ethics, but there are other moral philosophies. And ultimately utilitarianism is a deeply flawed ethical system.
Learn to be a good citizen in a pluralistic democracy. Your way is not the only way. Learn some humility.
I’m worried by people whose values say that when presented with the trolley problem the correct thing to do is to criticise the system in which people get tied to the tracks instead of just pulling the lever and then dealing with the system.
Yes, you can make any problem seem childishly simple with the trolley problem.
This is actually a whole series of trolley intersections arranged one after another. And every time you pull the lever to run over people, extra people get added to the intersections down the line. You skip killing five people now, but the next intersection has branches with 5 and 10 people on it.
You need to consider both short term and long term in your voting. It’s very easy to get myopically focused on just one election. To think that this election is all that matters, the fate of the whole world to be decided in one moment.
This idea is a fantasy and not how the real world works. Parties move slowly over many elections. Change and legislation happens over many elections. Even Trump’s power grabs are just a continuation of the ruthless expansion of executive power that has happened with both parties in charge.
If you hold your nose and vote for the Democrat every time, no matter how evil, you have now removed yourself entirely from the political process. If you’re not afraid to actually withhold your vote, the Democrat will inevitably respond by moving to the right. Think about what actual incentives Democrats have. And think about how your actions affect those incentives.
We are in the situation we are now in part because Democrats have been blindly “voting blue no matter who” for election after election. As left voters will blindly vote for the Democrat no matter what they do, Democratic candidates suffer no political consequences from moving to the right.
Don’t ignore the consequences of your actions. If you’re not willing to punish leaders at the ballot box, you are giving them absolutely zero incentive to actually try and address what you care about. They’ll happily take your guaranteed locked-in vote. They’ll happily take your donations. And then they’ll laugh to themselves, “can you believe this moron?” as they ignore everything you care about and pander to Republicans. After all, why shouldn’t they? You’ve castrated yourself politically. Your thoughts and beliefs don’t matter, as you’ve made yourself irrelevant.
Have you heard of a primary? Cause it basically invalidates everything you just said.
Also, the more the left refuses to vote Democrat, the more Democrats pander to the right. They’re trying to win the “moderate/centrist” vote because apparently they won’t get the leftist vote no matter what they do. They’ll never pass the purity test.
People with your logic are the ones shooting themselves in the foot at every election. Your logic got trump elected, and no amount of armchair philosophizing will be enough to squirm around that fact.
I have family in places where we had the pleasure of dealing with both Bushs, Obama, Trump and Biden, and frankly, they are all the same to me. I’ve never been to America but America came to us. Don’t use victims of American imperialism as a token to make a point.
It didn’t help me or my family & friends at all that it wasn’t Trump doing it before and I am horrified of what happened in Venezuela, but every American president at least since I’m alive is a war criminal but actually probably almost every American president ever has been a war criminal.
I‘m not American so I can’t vote for either of them, nor have I ever been to the US. But I have family in places where we had the pleasure of dealing with Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden, and frankly, neither of them has done us any good to say it very mildly.
Honestly dude until you have ever had to flee a warzone with killing squads going around, torture prisons, and children hospitals being bombed you’ll never understand.
I don’t care if your war criminal is blue or red or from Russia or USA, feel good about yourself for supporting not Trump but you have no idea how little it matters who’s running the torture prison you lock up my uncle in or throwing the bomb that killed my best friend‘s aunt or who destroyed my house.
And your answer is to… create more warzones? Because that is what trump is literally doing right now.
Politically, I am a progressive/leftist with strong socialist leanings. Because of my family history I… have very strong issues with communism both from the perspective of how it was implemented and corrupted as well as the fundamental flaws that lead to corruption.
Guess what? I don’t advocate for more communist->fascist regimes around the world so that others can experience the hurt too.
I don’t care about your political leanings. Stop doing war crimes in my country and in all other countries so I can go back lol. I don’t care who commits them or commits less of them or says nicer things while committing them, just fucking stop and stop pretending that you’re a better person for prioritizing your domestic issues and then calling me a Russian bot when I tell you that I don’t care who destroys my country. Bye
So, your projection is that Harris would have done the same as the Trump admin? Like a “Harris Tower Hotel” in Gaza City, with the involvement of Harris’s family members in the deal?
Kamala’s Israel policy is just a less white trash version of Trump’s.
Even the Biden administration was putting pressure on Israel to stop. They should have forced them, but they didn’t. There was at least a disapproval of their actions.
Trump basically gave them the green light and said do it faster please.
Neither good, but one approach was better
Harris would not have stopped the genocide. There’s no genocide light. It’s either you’re complicit in genocide or not. Trump is objectively a horrible person and I would have never voted for him but that doesn’t make Harris not a genocide supporter.
I thought we were past this blue MAGA bullshit.
So… just to confirm:
At best, Harris would have been no better for the people of Palestine than trump. And trump is demonstrably worse for basically the entire rest of the world (pretty sure Harris wouldn’t be threatening war on Denmark/the EU, for example).
So… your lack of a vote (which is effectively a vote for trump when you math it out) did absolutely nothing for the people you claim to care about while actively hurting everyone else.
Good job owning the libs, I guess?
People have different values, and they approach voting differently. You vote based on utilitarian ethics, but there are other moral philosophies. And ultimately utilitarianism is a deeply flawed ethical system.
Learn to be a good citizen in a pluralistic democracy. Your way is not the only way. Learn some humility.
I’m worried by people whose values say that when presented with the trolley problem the correct thing to do is to criticise the system in which people get tied to the tracks instead of just pulling the lever and then dealing with the system.
Yes, you can make any problem seem childishly simple with the trolley problem.
This is actually a whole series of trolley intersections arranged one after another. And every time you pull the lever to run over people, extra people get added to the intersections down the line. You skip killing five people now, but the next intersection has branches with 5 and 10 people on it.
You need to consider both short term and long term in your voting. It’s very easy to get myopically focused on just one election. To think that this election is all that matters, the fate of the whole world to be decided in one moment.
This idea is a fantasy and not how the real world works. Parties move slowly over many elections. Change and legislation happens over many elections. Even Trump’s power grabs are just a continuation of the ruthless expansion of executive power that has happened with both parties in charge.
If you hold your nose and vote for the Democrat every time, no matter how evil, you have now removed yourself entirely from the political process. If you’re not afraid to actually withhold your vote, the Democrat will inevitably respond by moving to the right. Think about what actual incentives Democrats have. And think about how your actions affect those incentives.
We are in the situation we are now in part because Democrats have been blindly “voting blue no matter who” for election after election. As left voters will blindly vote for the Democrat no matter what they do, Democratic candidates suffer no political consequences from moving to the right.
Don’t ignore the consequences of your actions. If you’re not willing to punish leaders at the ballot box, you are giving them absolutely zero incentive to actually try and address what you care about. They’ll happily take your guaranteed locked-in vote. They’ll happily take your donations. And then they’ll laugh to themselves, “can you believe this moron?” as they ignore everything you care about and pander to Republicans. After all, why shouldn’t they? You’ve castrated yourself politically. Your thoughts and beliefs don’t matter, as you’ve made yourself irrelevant.
Have you heard of a primary? Cause it basically invalidates everything you just said.
Also, the more the left refuses to vote Democrat, the more Democrats pander to the right. They’re trying to win the “moderate/centrist” vote because apparently they won’t get the leftist vote no matter what they do. They’ll never pass the purity test.
People with your logic are the ones shooting themselves in the foot at every election. Your logic got trump elected, and no amount of armchair philosophizing will be enough to squirm around that fact.
Hopefully the 80 freshly killed Venezuelans would be convinced by this reasoning.
I have family in places where we had the pleasure of dealing with both Bushs, Obama, Trump and Biden, and frankly, they are all the same to me. I’ve never been to America but America came to us. Don’t use victims of American imperialism as a token to make a point.
It didn’t help me or my family & friends at all that it wasn’t Trump doing it before and I am horrified of what happened in Venezuela, but every American president at least since I’m alive is a war criminal but actually probably almost every American president ever has been a war criminal.
My solution: Blow up the trolley, because if you are a problem, fuck you.
I‘m not American so I can’t vote for either of them, nor have I ever been to the US. But I have family in places where we had the pleasure of dealing with Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden, and frankly, neither of them has done us any good to say it very mildly.
Ah. So you are just encouraging people who CAN vote to… hurt you and everyone else.
Heads up: If your homeboy offers you something to drink, avoid it. Probably full of novichok.
Honestly dude until you have ever had to flee a warzone with killing squads going around, torture prisons, and children hospitals being bombed you’ll never understand.
I don’t care if your war criminal is blue or red or from Russia or USA, feel good about yourself for supporting not Trump but you have no idea how little it matters who’s running the torture prison you lock up my uncle in or throwing the bomb that killed my best friend‘s aunt or who destroyed my house.
And your answer is to… create more warzones? Because that is what trump is literally doing right now.
Politically, I am a progressive/leftist with strong socialist leanings. Because of my family history I… have very strong issues with communism both from the perspective of how it was implemented and corrupted as well as the fundamental flaws that lead to corruption.
Guess what? I don’t advocate for more communist->fascist regimes around the world so that others can experience the hurt too.
I don’t care about your political leanings. Stop doing war crimes in my country and in all other countries so I can go back lol. I don’t care who commits them or commits less of them or says nicer things while committing them, just fucking stop and stop pretending that you’re a better person for prioritizing your domestic issues and then calling me a Russian bot when I tell you that I don’t care who destroys my country. Bye
Well… congrats? trump’s got you covered. So… keep advocating for him, I guess?