• Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    to show that the simplified model cannot explain everything.

    It can, though.

    So can we give up on trading with China or do we do it because we are asked to decouple?

    Trump is only a glimpse of our future, being increasingly bullied around. Hence, it shows the importance to obtain independence and sever ties to these rivals as fast as possible.

    Microchips and AI, for now. But whatever it is, the size requires that it is always something.

    There’s European AI and concerning microchips: only further underlines the importance for us of protecting Taiwan against the threats of their aggressive neighbour.

    • plyth@feddit.org
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      1 month ago

      It can, though.

      I still don’t get it. How can the billionaires accept Trump’s politics if markets are closing for them?

      Trump is only a glimpse of our future, being increasingly bullied around. Hence, it shows the importance to obtain independence and sever ties to these rivals as fast as possible.

      It does. But why decouple from China as long as we depend on the USA?

      There’s European AI

      We have AI at home. The French AI is ‘surprisingly good’. Is that enough?

      concerning microchips: only further underlines the importance for us of protecting Taiwan against the threats of their aggressive neighbour.

      Your answer to the US being able to influence Taiwanese export policy is that we have to be able to protect it from China?

      That would be an option, but a serious argument would have come with an idea of how that could be achieved.

      • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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        1 month ago

        How can the billionaires accept Trump’s politics if markets are closing for them?

        Because they think if they don’t appease the mobster, he will cut them out of any business in the US. Given that he likes to reign like an absolute ruler, I can see that happening, but still would advise them to stop sucking up to him. We won’t hear what they really think of him until he’s no longer in power. Whenever that’ll be.

        But why decouple from China as long as we depend on the USA?

        You need to decouple from both. Otherwise, you’ll just shift your dependencies to the other country instead.

        The French AI is ‘surprisingly good’. Is that enough?

        It will have to do. And if we funnel our funds into that instead of sending the money to our rivals, like the others do anyways, we can have top notch products.

        That would be an option, but a serious argument would have come with an idea of how that could be achieved.

        There are numerous levels of support. Bolstering and recognising Taiwan, providing economic and military assistance, making the point that we won’t accept China’s invasion. China and the US cannot be the only parties on the world that can project power.

        • plyth@feddit.org
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          1 month ago

          Because they think if they don’t appease the mobster, he will cut them out of any business in the US.

          There was no need to end up like this. Billionaires have above average intelligence and a team of intelligent advisers. Project 2025 was known, and much more, since they know him in person or through friends and acquaintances.

          They wanted second term Trump or at least didn’t try to prevent it even though they had the money to do it.

          So they must have a common goal.

          You need to decouple from both. Otherwise, you’ll just shift your dependencies to the other country instead.

          More, you become dependend because there is no opportunity for replacement.

          It will have to do. And if we funnel our funds into that instead of sending the money to our rivals, like the others do anyways, we can have top notch products.

          Right now the AI companies sell their models for a loss.

          OpenAI generated around $4.3 billion in revenue in the first half of 2025

          Raking in billions though it may be, OpenAI has also committed to spending over $1 trillion over the next decade (yes, trillion).

          That’s a “ReArm Europe” amount of money. I would say that it is worthwhile to spend but I doubt it will be spent.

          The problem is that we don’t have the private capital for that. Do you expect the EU to bet on state-run companies?

          making the point that we won’t accept China’s invasion. China and the US cannot be the only parties on the world that can project power.

          Should the EU invest that AI € trillion better in carrier groups? In which country are we going to build bases to be able to supply the carrier groups while they defend Taiwan from China?

          If the EU is stretched too thin no battle will be won.

          • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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            1 month ago

            There was no need to end up like this.

            Do you disagree with what I said, though?

            More, you become dependend because there is no opportunity for replacement.

            Why should there be no opportunity for replacement?

            The problem is that we don’t have the private capital for that.

            What numbers do you base that on?

            In which country are we going to build bases to be able to supply the carrier groups while they defend Taiwan from China?

            Taiwan, for example. If we can credibly conceive the determination to defend Taiwan with everything we have, including nukes, there won’t be a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

            • plyth@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              Do you disagree with what I said, though?

              Yes. Why accept tariffs and isolating foreign markets if you are greedy? Why push for lgbtq for years and accept a 180 turn?

              Why should there be no opportunity for replacement?

              For products that are only available in both countries.

              What numbers do you base that on?

              Some EU report that I cannot find. The funding problen is also shown here, at page 280. However it looks better because in theory the EU citizens would have more money. But I doubt that billionaires are included if the money is held in foundations.

              https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-competitiveness/draghi-report_en

              Taiwan, for example. If we can credibly conceive the determination to defend Taiwan with everything we have, including nukes, there won’t be a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

              China can do a naval blockade. Do we go nuclear over that? If we do, do we also build a star shield, like China does, after the US started?

              Either we have had massive excess capacities or we have to do massive cuts and retrain engineers and workers, or even wait for the next generation. What do we cut?

              I don’t see how we can secure Taiwan. It would be easier to build the chips, and that’s already very difficult.

              • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                1 month ago

                Yes. Why accept tariffs and isolating foreign markets if you are greedy?

                Because the domestic market is more important to them than the foreign. And the domestic market is controlled by Trump.

                Why push for lgbtq for years and accept a 180 turn?

                Exactly. They never “pushed for lgbtq” but did it as long as there was money to be made with. Now the climate changed in the US and they adapt.

                For products that are only available in both countries.

                Didn’t you also agree that the French AI is surprisingly good? If we can make that, why are you still so afraid?

                The funding problen is also shown here, at page 280. However it looks better because in theory the EU citizens would have more money.

                Exactly. And the report also states that public investment is needed to pave the way for private investments. So it is mainly a policy issue - which can be addressed.

                China can do a naval blockade. Do we go nuclear over that?

                If we mean it when we say that it is in our strategic interest to keep Taiwan sovereign, then ultimately yes.

                I don’t see how we can secure Taiwan.

                See above.

                • plyth@feddit.org
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                  1 month ago

                  Because the domestic market is more important to them than the foreign. And the domestic market is controlled by Trump.

                  Project 2025 was known, as well as Trump’s attitude towards tariffs. They could have avoided Trump.

                  Exactly. They never “pushed for lgbtq” but did it as long as there was money to be made with.

                  Why not prevent the change if it is more profitable to have lgbtq?

                  Didn’t you also agree that the French AI is surprisingly good?

                  Is place 18 good enough? https://huggingface.co/spaces/lmarena-ai/lmarena-leaderboard

                  It shows that they are not out of touch. But if they are only as good as the GDR at building cars then the EU cannot rely on it.

                  public investment is needed to pave the way for private investments.

                  Which shows the dead end of the EU. For AI or hyperscaler there was no public funding in the US. Do we have public funding for the next generation of technological advances?

                  The EU is only catching up. That cannot be profitable in the long run.

                  The bottleneck are the small banks. In the US the tech founders can use their shares as collateral and thus have the money to invest in new companies. The people with knowledge make the decisions. In the EU, with public funding, some civil servants do.

                  If we mean it when we say that it is in our strategic interest to keep Taiwan sovereign, then ultimately yes.

                  We would need the satellites to take down ICBMs and we would need the industrial output to replace them instantly in a space war. We would need the robot technology that could already take back all the production from China.

                  If we could, why haven’t we done it so far?

                  And then, China can just keep improving the quality of life of their citizens. At one point, the majority in Taiwan will want to join the mainland. Do we then oppose that?

                  The US can have the carrier groups and the satellites because the profits end up in the US. Without the EU, the US is not big enough to rival China. That’s why the EU was put into the situation to pick sides.

                  • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                    1 month ago

                    They could have avoided Trump.

                    Why? They still can make money and if they manage to gain his favour, even more than before. At least that’s what their bet is.

                    Why not prevent the change if it is more profitable to have lgbtq?

                    Who said it is? They just adapt to the frame conditions, so they can get the maximum under the current rules.

                    It shows that they are not out of touch.

                    It shows that they’re not out of touch even with all the deficits the EU currently has in achieving technological sovereignty. Of course, with a policy change, things will even improve further.

                    Which shows the dead end of the EU.

                    No it doesn’t. It shows what changes must be made.

                    Do we have public funding for the next generation of technological advances?

                    Not yet, that’s the point exactly.

                    The EU is only catching up. That cannot be profitable in the long run.

                    Sounds very cowardly. Did China think so in the 90s, when it was a huge country stricken with poverty? Would your advise then also have been to ‘just give up, there’s no point!’?

                    The bottleneck are the small banks.

                    A couple of days ago, it were ‘the engineers’. A new reason every day…

                    If we could, why haven’t we done it so far?

                    Because so far, we only had the people that didn’t want an independent, leading position for Europe but instead for us to just be an annex. Of either the ‘West’ or the ‘East’. Who lived in a worldview from the past. Who lack the vision to imagine a Europe that isn’t only at someone’s mercy but can stand for itself. Why should their inability to adapt stop our continent?

                    At one point, the majority in Taiwan will want to join the mainland. Do we then oppose that?

                    Why would they want to join a foreign nation that offers less liberties and is constantly threatening them with war?