• Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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    1 month ago

    How can the billionaires accept Trump’s politics if markets are closing for them?

    Because they think if they don’t appease the mobster, he will cut them out of any business in the US. Given that he likes to reign like an absolute ruler, I can see that happening, but still would advise them to stop sucking up to him. We won’t hear what they really think of him until he’s no longer in power. Whenever that’ll be.

    But why decouple from China as long as we depend on the USA?

    You need to decouple from both. Otherwise, you’ll just shift your dependencies to the other country instead.

    The French AI is ‘surprisingly good’. Is that enough?

    It will have to do. And if we funnel our funds into that instead of sending the money to our rivals, like the others do anyways, we can have top notch products.

    That would be an option, but a serious argument would have come with an idea of how that could be achieved.

    There are numerous levels of support. Bolstering and recognising Taiwan, providing economic and military assistance, making the point that we won’t accept China’s invasion. China and the US cannot be the only parties on the world that can project power.

    • plyth@feddit.org
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      1 month ago

      Because they think if they don’t appease the mobster, he will cut them out of any business in the US.

      There was no need to end up like this. Billionaires have above average intelligence and a team of intelligent advisers. Project 2025 was known, and much more, since they know him in person or through friends and acquaintances.

      They wanted second term Trump or at least didn’t try to prevent it even though they had the money to do it.

      So they must have a common goal.

      You need to decouple from both. Otherwise, you’ll just shift your dependencies to the other country instead.

      More, you become dependend because there is no opportunity for replacement.

      It will have to do. And if we funnel our funds into that instead of sending the money to our rivals, like the others do anyways, we can have top notch products.

      Right now the AI companies sell their models for a loss.

      OpenAI generated around $4.3 billion in revenue in the first half of 2025

      Raking in billions though it may be, OpenAI has also committed to spending over $1 trillion over the next decade (yes, trillion).

      That’s a “ReArm Europe” amount of money. I would say that it is worthwhile to spend but I doubt it will be spent.

      The problem is that we don’t have the private capital for that. Do you expect the EU to bet on state-run companies?

      making the point that we won’t accept China’s invasion. China and the US cannot be the only parties on the world that can project power.

      Should the EU invest that AI € trillion better in carrier groups? In which country are we going to build bases to be able to supply the carrier groups while they defend Taiwan from China?

      If the EU is stretched too thin no battle will be won.

      • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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        1 month ago

        There was no need to end up like this.

        Do you disagree with what I said, though?

        More, you become dependend because there is no opportunity for replacement.

        Why should there be no opportunity for replacement?

        The problem is that we don’t have the private capital for that.

        What numbers do you base that on?

        In which country are we going to build bases to be able to supply the carrier groups while they defend Taiwan from China?

        Taiwan, for example. If we can credibly conceive the determination to defend Taiwan with everything we have, including nukes, there won’t be a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

        • plyth@feddit.org
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          1 month ago

          Do you disagree with what I said, though?

          Yes. Why accept tariffs and isolating foreign markets if you are greedy? Why push for lgbtq for years and accept a 180 turn?

          Why should there be no opportunity for replacement?

          For products that are only available in both countries.

          What numbers do you base that on?

          Some EU report that I cannot find. The funding problen is also shown here, at page 280. However it looks better because in theory the EU citizens would have more money. But I doubt that billionaires are included if the money is held in foundations.

          https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-competitiveness/draghi-report_en

          Taiwan, for example. If we can credibly conceive the determination to defend Taiwan with everything we have, including nukes, there won’t be a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

          China can do a naval blockade. Do we go nuclear over that? If we do, do we also build a star shield, like China does, after the US started?

          Either we have had massive excess capacities or we have to do massive cuts and retrain engineers and workers, or even wait for the next generation. What do we cut?

          I don’t see how we can secure Taiwan. It would be easier to build the chips, and that’s already very difficult.

          • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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            1 month ago

            Yes. Why accept tariffs and isolating foreign markets if you are greedy?

            Because the domestic market is more important to them than the foreign. And the domestic market is controlled by Trump.

            Why push for lgbtq for years and accept a 180 turn?

            Exactly. They never “pushed for lgbtq” but did it as long as there was money to be made with. Now the climate changed in the US and they adapt.

            For products that are only available in both countries.

            Didn’t you also agree that the French AI is surprisingly good? If we can make that, why are you still so afraid?

            The funding problen is also shown here, at page 280. However it looks better because in theory the EU citizens would have more money.

            Exactly. And the report also states that public investment is needed to pave the way for private investments. So it is mainly a policy issue - which can be addressed.

            China can do a naval blockade. Do we go nuclear over that?

            If we mean it when we say that it is in our strategic interest to keep Taiwan sovereign, then ultimately yes.

            I don’t see how we can secure Taiwan.

            See above.

            • plyth@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              Because the domestic market is more important to them than the foreign. And the domestic market is controlled by Trump.

              Project 2025 was known, as well as Trump’s attitude towards tariffs. They could have avoided Trump.

              Exactly. They never “pushed for lgbtq” but did it as long as there was money to be made with.

              Why not prevent the change if it is more profitable to have lgbtq?

              Didn’t you also agree that the French AI is surprisingly good?

              Is place 18 good enough? https://huggingface.co/spaces/lmarena-ai/lmarena-leaderboard

              It shows that they are not out of touch. But if they are only as good as the GDR at building cars then the EU cannot rely on it.

              public investment is needed to pave the way for private investments.

              Which shows the dead end of the EU. For AI or hyperscaler there was no public funding in the US. Do we have public funding for the next generation of technological advances?

              The EU is only catching up. That cannot be profitable in the long run.

              The bottleneck are the small banks. In the US the tech founders can use their shares as collateral and thus have the money to invest in new companies. The people with knowledge make the decisions. In the EU, with public funding, some civil servants do.

              If we mean it when we say that it is in our strategic interest to keep Taiwan sovereign, then ultimately yes.

              We would need the satellites to take down ICBMs and we would need the industrial output to replace them instantly in a space war. We would need the robot technology that could already take back all the production from China.

              If we could, why haven’t we done it so far?

              And then, China can just keep improving the quality of life of their citizens. At one point, the majority in Taiwan will want to join the mainland. Do we then oppose that?

              The US can have the carrier groups and the satellites because the profits end up in the US. Without the EU, the US is not big enough to rival China. That’s why the EU was put into the situation to pick sides.

              • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                1 month ago

                They could have avoided Trump.

                Why? They still can make money and if they manage to gain his favour, even more than before. At least that’s what their bet is.

                Why not prevent the change if it is more profitable to have lgbtq?

                Who said it is? They just adapt to the frame conditions, so they can get the maximum under the current rules.

                It shows that they are not out of touch.

                It shows that they’re not out of touch even with all the deficits the EU currently has in achieving technological sovereignty. Of course, with a policy change, things will even improve further.

                Which shows the dead end of the EU.

                No it doesn’t. It shows what changes must be made.

                Do we have public funding for the next generation of technological advances?

                Not yet, that’s the point exactly.

                The EU is only catching up. That cannot be profitable in the long run.

                Sounds very cowardly. Did China think so in the 90s, when it was a huge country stricken with poverty? Would your advise then also have been to ‘just give up, there’s no point!’?

                The bottleneck are the small banks.

                A couple of days ago, it were ‘the engineers’. A new reason every day…

                If we could, why haven’t we done it so far?

                Because so far, we only had the people that didn’t want an independent, leading position for Europe but instead for us to just be an annex. Of either the ‘West’ or the ‘East’. Who lived in a worldview from the past. Who lack the vision to imagine a Europe that isn’t only at someone’s mercy but can stand for itself. Why should their inability to adapt stop our continent?

                At one point, the majority in Taiwan will want to join the mainland. Do we then oppose that?

                Why would they want to join a foreign nation that offers less liberties and is constantly threatening them with war?

                • plyth@feddit.org
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                  1 month ago

                  Why? They still can make money and if they manage to gain his favour, even more than before. At least that’s what their bet is.

                  Now that’s the strategy but they could have prevented Trump or all without favour could go for an impeachement now.

                  Sounds very cowardly. Did China think so in the 90s, when it was a huge country stricken with poverty?

                  They introduced free markets while you suggest something like state-owned companies. That’s almost the opposite.

                  Would your advise then also have been to ‘just give up, there’s no point!’?

                  No, just that we account for our dependencies with open eyes.

                  A couple of days ago, it were ‘the engineers’. A new reason every day…

                  Build a wall and you get the engineers without money. This is the GDR repeating.

                  Because so far, we only had the people that didn’t want an independent, leading position for Europe

                  I hope you are right. Remember that logistics wins wars, not enthusiasm.

                  Why would they want to join a foreign nation that offers less liberties and is constantly threatening them with war?

                  Because the population is not the government. At one point, China will have more resources per citizen and Taiwanese people will long for it like citizens of the GDR longed for unification with the FRG. The politics are secondary. Chinese can travel, that’s enough freedom.

                  • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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                    1 month ago

                    Now that’s the strategy but they could have prevented Trump or all without favour could go for an impeachement now.

                    Why? If they appease, they make money. They don’t care about more. As long as they have a perspective to generate profits, they’ll adapt.

                    They introduced free markets while you suggest something like state-owned companies.

                    I don’t. I suggest state-driven investments and incentives for key sectors. Something you’ll very much find in China (e-mobility, solar, …) or the US. And frankly, that’s nothing revolutionary, but just needs to be done.

                    No, just that we account for our dependencies with open eyes.

                    Wasn’t China dependent then? Yet, they set course to become independent. You’ll acknowledge they made it happen, yet think it’ll be impossible for us?

                    Remember that logistics wins wars, not enthusiasm.

                    Yet it starts with the willingness to do something. Are you willing?

                    Because the population is not the government.

                    I like how you still think the population considers themselves ‘Chinese’. The only thing keeping the ‘China’ label on Taiwan is the constant threat of war by the fragile PRC should Taiwan dare to call itself what it actually is: Taiwan.

                    It is so dumb and self-harming of the PRC to act like that. What would they need Taiwan for anyways? They have everything they need to be a successful and thriving major power, yet they’re hell-bent on invading an island that has 1.7% of their population, triggering a world war doing so? Why? Is that revenge really worth the inevitable harm it will have on China’s wealth and well-being of its people?

                    the GDR longed for unification with the FRG.

                    The people of the GDR lived in an autocratic dictatorship that failed to prevail in competition with the free world while subjugating its people to complete surveillance and locking them in at gunpoint. At the end, it was so fragile and hollow that it just crumbled and disappeared, like the rest of the Soviet Bloc. China averted that by becoming capitalist, while still keeping the autocratic elements alive. Let’s see how long that’ll work.

                    Taiwan is a thriving economy, its citizens can go wherever they want and despite trying for 70 years, the mighty PRC couldn’t change that.