edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms.
It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board.
FAQ:
Why?
That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances.
How does this work?
Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed.
What about the posts?
Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled.
As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.

IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM.
Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)

  • Lumelore (She/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    5 days ago

    We won’t be moving to world with you. We like blahaj and we like 196 being on blahaj. If you don’t want to be here, you should instead just hand over your mod positions to people who do.

  • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    5 days ago

    I would like to propose a solution that I think can make everyone happy. Transfer ownership of Blahaj 196 to a new mod team and make World 196 the alternate community. If anyone wishes to follow the original mod team into world they would be able to, meanwhile blahaj 196 would follow the values of Blahaj. I personally volunteer to either be the head or a moderator here.

  • glilimith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    I’ve seen a lot of talk about how this move changes the admins the community will be under, but very little about how this will change the randos that pass through. The mods keep saying this won’t change anything, that the moderation will stay the same, etc, but the reason this community is the way it is is that there are a lot of locals that find it. When the new community shows up on l.w’s local page, it will bring in a far different crowd. Their posts, comments, and up/down votes will change the community, and there’s no amount of moderation that will fix that.

    Mods, this is why people are mad you made this change without asking anyone. Many of us do not want an influx of .world users into this space because we know what kind of politics and biases they’ll bring with them and that, even if you moderate the bigots, the normies will still likely overpower the queer voices this community is known for.

  • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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    5 days ago

    @moss@lemmy.blahaj.zone did you consult even a single member of your community or did you just decide this was good for you, like on a personal level?

    thanks for linking the new one it makes it easy to block.

    very disappointed. :(

    • Lumu@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Seriously. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should leave the community, so ultimately this may be a good thing, so long as this community is kept here and passed to other people.

  • nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    I’m sorry but what the fuck are you on?

    lemmy.world

    Literally the worst instance for a decentralized platform (cuz they’re already too big).

    please be assured we have same mod team

    No that doesn’t assure me. Whichever mods signed off on this should be removed from any 196 community because you took rule too seriously and forgot about your community before posting

    It’s really obvious what this is about. And it’s not a good look for you.

    • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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      If you don’t want to get into it yourself, totally cool, but if anyone else does - what is this about?? Like, I don’t understand the moderatorial and ideological differences referenced that justify bringing 196 to .world.

      I loved having 196 on blahaj specifically, means more exposure to my trans and gender diverse homies and their memes because they feel safe here.

      Edit: To those just joining us, who like me comment before reading the whole thread, this is a good place to start: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12464713

      [Edit edit: Changed to a LBZ link, because having it be the lemmy.world link is the height of irony]

      • nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        Basically lemmy.blahaj.zone has gotten some criticism because of the server rules and stickied instance posts where we are to respect everyone’s identity/neopronouns. There are a few people who identity as something people consider not real, such as dragons. Neopronouns arent necessarily meant to be literally real, and someone may identify as something they feel resembles them such as a dragon, or “fae”. But some people believe that since dragons/fae/etc don’t literally exist then they aren’t valid identities/neopronouns. These people think that lemmy.blahaj.zone is enabling trolls identifing as non-real things. It also means that people in this 196 community need(ed) to respect people’s identities even if they didn’t think they were valid. Apparently that was too much to ask for the mods of this community.

        Personally i don’t know, nor do i care, if the 1-2 people are trolling. If they are, they aren’t typical nasty trolls. They are just like any other user to me. Imo If someone wants to identify as a dragon then good for them. If anything it helps identify people who are openly combative with the instance rules.

        All that is to say, it was clear to me that the mods want to move to another instance where they don’t have to respect identities they don’t consider valid. And my suspicion was right because the mod spelled it out down thread

        […] I can guarantee we will not be expected to entertain trolls […]

      • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        I can only guess that this is about this instance’s zero-tolerance policy for transphobia. This means there might be higher standards for removing transphobic content than the mods might be capable of meeting / willing to meet. This is just a guess, though - I would like some clarification as well, esp. since in the absence of clarity it just looks like 196 is moving because they don’t want to be vigilant about removing transphobic content, which as nimble pointed out is not a good look. 🤷‍♀️

        EDIT: found the answer

        https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20937206/12464713

        in response to the question:

        Compromise on what? What’s the issue?

        The post doesn’t really say anything spesific [sic]

        We get this response:

        A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world:

        Heavy-handed moderation, mostly. Don’t get me wrong, we do love Ada and appreciate her work, but sometimes we’ll see people getting banned or comments getting removed for relatively mild takes. We also often disagreed about the severity of the actions, like ban lengths being way too long considering the reason, or people getting banned over something that really should just be a removal.

        To put it bluntly, (and I mean no disrespect, but) her mod actions often felt very vibes-based. Like her feelings heavily influenced her decisions. We want the rules to be enforced in a more objective fashion.

        So we asked her to let us handle 196 if the content in question wasn’t explicitly trans/queerphobic or illegal, etc… She disagreed, and we respect her view, so we brought up the idea of moving and she gave us her blessing.

        so tl;dr disagreements about 1. what counts as violations, and 2. the severity of punishment for those violations (where Blahaj admins are perceived as too strict and 196 mods wish to be more lenient).

        • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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          Thank you - asked the question in another place, and while I’d much prefer an offical comment from Ada and/or Moss or the other mods, I’m starting to form a picture.

          If it’s a capability thing I would hope there would’ve been a call for more mods to support the instance-wide rules…easy to say, of course, but I feel like there’s so much love for this community they’d have some volunteers.

          This sucks.

          Edit: Start here, folks: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12464713

          • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            I agree it sucks, but I also want to resist the the urge to villainize the 196 mods in the absence of information. Maybe they are just being realistic, or maybe they really prefer to have more moderation autonomy to determine what they consider transphobic - it’s not clear to me.

              • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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                Agreed - putting rationale aside, locking the community and just saying “We are moving our community to .world, go there” without community consultation is a terrible move.

                Man, haven’t had to think this much about the relationships between instances, communities, and userbases re: ‘ownership’ for a while.

              • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                I pretty much agree. It seems more in the spirit of the fediverse to let blahaj 196 to continue with new mods that are more comfortable with the hard line blahaj takes about transphobia, and if the old mods wish to start a new 196 community on .world, there’s nothing stopping them.

  • TwiddleTwaddle@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    I strongly disagree with this decision and the reasoning behind it. Blahaj is, in my opinion, the best place for this community specifically because of the strong moderation and policies of Ada and other admins here.

    Lemmy.world is also the worst instance I can think of outside of the big three tankie instances. It contributes further to the centralization of Lemmy as a whole (since 196 has been one of the most active communities on the entire platform). In my opinion, the .world crowd’s liberal and pro-colonialist/capitalist tendencies are a terrible fit for this community.

    I’d have rather seen Blahaj defederate from .world than 196 move there, even if it meant less content and engagement. At least the cultural values of the community wouldn’t have been compromised.

    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Weren’t .world admins also banning references to jury nullification and jokes about Luigi Mangioni killing more CEO’s?

        • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          It’s a term in online parlance that makes reference to a comic, and it means someone who intrudes into someone else’s space and derails their conversations under the pretext of civil disagreement.

          • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            I never really liked this comic or the concept of sealioning because in this comic the ‘annoying’ entity is someone who is being outcasted based on their identity. In a comparison between bigots and marginalised groups, a marginalised group has more in common with the sea lion than the humans, and the bigots have more in common with the humans.

            The comic is more logically read as bigots that are annoyed that the minority they’re discriminating against is defending their rights to exist.

            • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              I never really liked this comic or the concept of sealioning because in this comic the ‘annoying’ entity is someone who is being outcasted based on their identity.

              While I understand and to some degree even share your feelings towards the original comic, the concept of sealioning that spawned from it is generally quite far divorced from that particular issue IME, which is why I focused my definition on the aspects of the behaviour that make it a PITA to deal with.

        • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          People who argue in bad faith while trying to maintain an aura of civility. The whole “I’m just asking questions” bs that tries to win by baiting you into getting angry.

    • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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      In my opinion, the .world crowd’s liberal and pro-colonialist/capitalist tendencies are a terrible fit for this community.

      I haven’t noticed this, personally. But even if that’s true, the way I see it, having more explicitly left-leaning communities can only help remedy that issue.

      At least the cultural values of the community wouldn’t have been compromised.

      The only thing that’s changing is our location. Our moderation policies are staying the same and I don’t expect any significant changes in the types of users coming into this community. And if we do get an influx of bad actors or trolls, we’ll do what we’ve always done and remove them.

      The only difference for you guys is going to be what’s written after the @ symbol.

      • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        In my opinion, the .world crowd’s liberal and pro-colonialist/capitalist tendencies are a terrible fit for this community.

        I haven’t noticed this, personally.

        This is a pretty alarming sign for where lemmy.world/c/196 is headed tbh and it leads me to believe that what you’re calling “heavy-handed” moderation on Ada’s part is actually just her being able to notice shit that you don’t.

      • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
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        The only thing that’s changing is our location. Our moderation policies are staying the same

        That’s pretty rich, since the .world admins just very recently made a statement where they proudly wanted to force every mod to change their policies. Including the statement that mods would be forced to follow their new rules.

        • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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          They rescinded that statement, which I think is a good sign. We gave them feedback and they listened.

          The policy was obviously flawed, but I think the spirit of the post was valid. Instances like .ml have major censorship problems, and if they want to be the opposite of them then that’s great.

          I haven’t interacted with the LW admins much, but I’m confident that they’ll be more flexible than LBZ if they do end up taking issue with our mod actions. But I don’t think it’ll come to that anyways.

          • Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            They rescinded that statement, which I think is a good sign. We gave them feedback and they listened.

            Good. Your community is giving you feedback now.

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        I dislike most big .world communities and the centralization of Lemmy, but I’m glad you guys feel confident in your ability to cultivate the same community in a larger and less curated space.

  • KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    I guess those ideological issues were the acceptance and safe space for queer people, but fuck us I guess. Don’t worry, we won’t hop on over to the shit show.

    Maybe we can start a 197 like how 196 came from 195.

    What a shitty fucking take from some power tripped mods.

    • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20937206/12464713

      looks like the main differences are about what counts as violations and how to deal with them:

      196 mod said:

      sometimes we’ll see people getting banned or comments getting removed for relatively mild takes. We also often disagreed about the severity of the actions, like ban lengths being way too long considering the reason, or people getting banned over something that really should just be a removal.

      Ada’s response:

      every post and user I removed was due to queerphobia, transphobia, trolling or spam, issues that broke the instances rules. Some of that bigotry was was implicit rather than explicit, like dog whistles, tone policing etc. Some of it was the “just asking questions” transphobia that pervades most corporate owned social media spaces. … As moss said, this is ideological differences in how low grade transphobia and queerphobia should be dealt with. moss is ok with community pushback for the low grade stuff rather than moderation, whereas I’ll just remove it.

      So it’s not as simple as queer acceptance vs not, but rather what counts as a violation and how severely those rules are enforced.

    • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
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      Yeah and it looks like the admins of blahaj are with the mod team on this, so i assume there wont be any reopening of 196 here. That means either 197 on blahaj or move to a different instance. I feel like the former would just lead to a repeat of the same story tho, if the instance admins here are ok with this kind of behaviour.

      It would be a power move if they just purged all the .world people from this community with this move and then reopened the community without the old mods.

  • not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    5 days ago

    u guys should mod a community on lemmy.world if they share ur values more but don’t steal our community

    • Moss@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPM
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      we aren’t stealing your community. the people who built and facilitated this community are the people who are migrating this community.

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        I thought we left that attitude on Reddit, that’s a really disappointing and insulting take. The community is the community, not a handful of moderators. We’re grateful for the work y’all are doing, but, and I really don’t intend this as an insult, moderators are replaceable.

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        Setting aside what an awful & insulting response this (the community is the community, that’s why the word exists. Moderators are not the community)…

        If you really believe this, then why lock the existing one? Obviously your well planned & executed move will be wildly successful, so there should be no need to lock the existing one. Unless of course 8 people who do caretaker duties on the community are in fact NOT the community, the people are and you need them, even if you don’t respect their opinions or contributions.

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          Yeah im sure 4.47k people subbed to the new community in a matter of 6 hours and its not just a bunch of bots used to validate this decision in the eyes of uninitiated bystanders. I mean the .world community is older than 6 hours, but it was completely dead for the last 3 months until yesterday.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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          The answer in that case would be for some users with a history of good faith interaction who are interested in doing so to reach out to the blahaj admins and ask if they can take over the running of this Community.

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            We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this.

            Ada being a blahaj admin. If that is true then i wouldnt be too optimistic.

      • inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        By moving a queer community to an openly hostile network you are stealing a community

        I don’t see why if you’re unhappy with moderation decisions why you can’t start your own 196 over on world and leave this one alone

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        A community is not something you can “migrate”. You are not migrating a community, you are migrating a community space and in doing so, you are alienating said community. If you are unwilling to provide a safe space for said community, the community will either find new space or take their space back.

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        In that case then why even announce anything? Apparently it’s your community and you can do what you like with it, you take your ball and go home. I assume that means you’ll be making and posting all the content there yourself?

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        I think for people who feel safe on blahaj but aren’t guaranteed that safety on .world, it might feel like locking /c/196 on Blahaj and the moderators telling everyone to move to .world is a bit like stealing the community. Maybe /u/not_IO meant that 196 on Blahaj should remain unlocked so 196 can continue to exist on Blahaj, but obviously the question is who will moderate the community if the moderators all leave for .world?

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    To be honest, I think a big part of the 196 identity is that it comes from blahaj. Maybe the move will prove me wrong, but I can’t imagine the energy will be the same.

    • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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      We did want to stay in LBZ, but Ada wasn’t willing to compromise with us. Which is her right, and we respect it.

      I don’t think the energy will be any different, though.

        • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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          Heavy-handed moderation, mostly. Don’t get me wrong, we do love Ada and appreciate her work, but sometimes we’ll see people getting banned or comments getting removed for relatively mild takes. We also often disagreed about the severity of the actions, like ban lengths being way too long considering the reason, or people getting banned over something that really should just be a removal.

          To put it bluntly, (and I mean no disrespect, but) her mod actions often felt very vibes-based. Like her feelings heavily influenced her decisions. We want the rules to be enforced in a more objective fashion.

          So we asked her to let us handle 196 if the content in question wasn’t explicitly trans/queerphobic or illegal, etc… She disagreed, and we respect her view, so we brought up the idea of moving and she gave us her blessing.

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            I thought this was meant to be on good terms? What about your post is fostering good will? It’s nothing but trashing on me…

            To be clear, every post and user I removed was due to queerphobia, transphobia, trolling or spam, issues that broke the instances rules. Some of that bigotry was was implicit rather than explicit, like dog whistles, tone policing etc. Some of it was the “just asking questions” transphobia that pervades most corporate owned social media spaces.

            This is the way I have moderated this instance from before the time I handed this community to moss. When lemmy was just taking off, I asked for people to mod the 196 community after it was abandoned by its original creators, and passed it over to moss when she raised her hand.

            So if the goal is for this to be civil, maybe don’t paint me as the bad guy for moderating in a way I have done from before your community was created here. What feels like “moderating by vibes” to you, is lengthy experience with community development, and a decade navigating queer and gender diverse communities, and knowing what I want from them. As moss said, this is ideological differences in how low grade transphobia and queerphobia should be dealt with. moss is ok with community pushback for the low grade stuff rather than moderation, whereas I’ll just remove it.

            That’s what I wouldn’t compromise on, and that has been the way the instance has run for years now.

            It feels like every time I extend 196 a hand, you bite it. I gave the community to moss and started this whole thing. I told another instance admin no when they asked 196 to remove their banner. moss then went and leaked the DMs from said admin, forcing me to remove the post, and then had a public complaint session about me for removing the post.

            I have asked 196 for years now to have an active blahaj.zone mod so that someone can deal with the blahaj.zone reports that constantly come through and build up, but still, the best we got were mods with alt accounts that get checked every couple of days, leaving me to deal with the build up of reports on 196. Sometimes they would hang around there for days while I waited for a 196 mod to log in and look at them. And because you don’t like the way I deal with them, you drag me over the coals for my moderation style, despite no one from 196 stepping up to deal with those reports on a regular basis.

            I was told that you were thinking about moving to another instance. I offered my support if you decided to stay or to leave. And that was the last I heard of it, until one of your mods (possibly you if I remember correctly) told the community you were organising something with lemmy.world, and I had to hear that second hand. And then, when things were finalised and the decision to move was locked in, once more, I heard about it second hand, after your team made a public post, because no one from 196 could be bothered to tell me before posting.

            So no, you don’t get to paint me as the unreasonable admin who moderates by “vibes”. If you want to point the finger at me, at least own your own mistakes, rather than asking for good will and civility and then dumping on me when the chance presents itself.

            • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              5 days ago

              Wow, I already didn’t agree with this move, but knowing they went behind your back makes this feel especially bad. I’ll certainly not move then. I’m sorry to hear that, and I just want you to know that the community, for the most part, stands behind you <3

              I, like many others I imagine, came to blahaj because of c/196, but stayed for the amazing safe space and community you’ve built here!

              • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                5 days ago

                No no, they didn’t go behind my back. I knew it was in the works. It’s more that there was no clear communication about the plans, so I only found out specifics after they’d been made public.

                • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  5 days ago

                  Okay, that’s good to hear. Still not happy with the situation, but I’m glad to hear you were at least somewhat in the loop

                • Moss@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPM
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                  5 days ago

                  we only finalized pur plans a few days ago. This was essentially announced as soon as it materialized

            • valentinesmith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              5 days ago

              I for one repeatedly have enjoyed your community management and moderation style.

              I am happy and glad to know that someone as experienced and resourceful has always been committed to create, foster and defend a safe space like blahaj.

              The fact that moderation specifically is cited as a reason to switch instances is worrisome to me and feels like it will not be a place for me I want to frequent and I am sad that you are being painted in a bad light here.

              I thank you for your continuous good work and hope that this move at least eventually will lead to fewer bad moments for you, because you do not deserve to be treated badly with the care you are giving this community.

            • Meldrik@lemmy.wtf
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              5 days ago

              Just let them “move” the community and have someone else moderate this community. I’m sure there are people standing in line to do it.

            • Peachy [they/she] @lemmy.blahaj.zoneM
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              4 days ago

              I have a local account and (from my POV) anytime we got the “reports are piling up” message it was maybe 3 reports that were less than 12 hours old. We never had reports older than 2 days at least since I started helping August 7th, 2023. I check everyday, if I wanted another mod’s opinion of a report I left it up while I waited for a response but we never just ignored the reports. I’m not sure where “the best we got were mods with alt accounts that get checked every couple of days, leaving me to deal with the build up of reports on 196. Sometimes they would hang around there for days while I waited for a 196 mod to log in and look at them” is coming from. I was one of the first mods brought on Aug 2023, so if this is older than a year and half I’m not sure why it’s being brought up? I’m not trying to argue with you, I appreciate everything you’ve done to help the community; I’m just confused

            • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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              5 days ago

              I really don’t mean any ill will!

              As moss said, this is ideological differences in how low grade transphobia and queerphobia should be dealt with. moss is ok with community pushback for the low grade stuff rather than moderation, whereas I’ll just remove it.

              I agree, and that’s all I’m trying to say. I didn’t mean for any of that to be rude, but a lot of people are demanding an explanation and I’m just trying to be honest. We disagree about how to handle moderation and that’s fine, I’m not trying to paint you as a bad mod.

              And I’m sorry about not having an LBZ mod, I wasn’t aware that we needed one. Federated communities are a new thing for me and I’m still learning.

              I understand it may not seem like it, but we truly don’t mean any ill will. There is none on our part, and I hope the same is true for you.

              • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                5 days ago

                Then maybe when you are talking to people in the future about this, you can talk about the differences in moderation styles in an objective way, talking about the types of things we disagree on, without loading it with terms like “over moderation” and “moderating by vibes” etc.

                My moderation style hasn’t changed, and predates 196. If it doesn’t gel with your team, you can say that without making it my fault.

              • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                5 days ago

                Please, you did paint ada in a bad way and if that was truly unintentional then you should edit that comment and remove the unfounded accusations. I very much agree with ada’s moderating actions to make sure blahaj.zone is a safe space for trans people that don’t wish to constantly battle with transphobic or misogynistic dog whistles.

          • Lux (it/they)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            5 days ago

            How about you leave to .world, and transfer this community to someone who actually cares about it. It’s not up to the few people on the mod team to make decisions for the entire community.

          • TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
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            5 days ago

            you should’ve put that in the post, it’s not very clear.
            also, while I can understand that, I feel like this should have been polled or something. I like that 196 comes from blahaj as it’s pretty unique

            • A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.worldM
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              5 days ago

              This isn’t my post, but I’ll ask Moss to edit in a better explanation into the “why” part of the text.