The US is openly saying they want to breakup the EU. Obviously 26 singular states that have to negotiate with a big bully are weaker than one united front. But the seppos have already been attacking the EU with their social media influencers, the manosphere, paying thinkpropaganda-tanks to influence politicians and the population, funding right-wingers, hacking into our infrastructure, and more. Only recently is the entire union waking up to the threat the US poses.
But can we resist? How do you think the EU as a whole should or will react? Will the seppos be successful? What are your predictions?
Obviously 26 singular states that have to negotiate with a big bully are weaker than one united front.
I assume it’s Hungary that you’re not including in there (EU has 27 members).
EU should fine shit out of US platforms to the point they leave. All these Xittors, facebooks and instagrams are hybrid war tools at this point. At the same time EU should spin up official EU Mastodon and Frendica instances with strict anti-eu-separatism and anti-political-interference policies. Some will say this is bad, make no mistake US platforms do same but targeting europe. With EU platform there is at least a chance to make our policy maker accountable
social media is a hybrid war tool.
Exactly! EU should not rely on foreign social media. At least not too much
Please pressure your country to get rid of the American tech. Americans are not smart enough to understand the problem. I’ve tried to explain for ages. If the EU could be convinced to discontinue connection to the “hybrid war tools”, that would be a chunk of cash out of their pockets.
Yeah they should follow the lead of China and Russia and create their own sovereign internet, under EU control.
I really hope we can do that. I mean, we can do it, but we probably wont. Not with 80 year old politicians…
Imagine we could get 100% independent from USA and how that would affect them… i think Hollywood etc, we spend so much money on Streaming and Cinema… don’t buy Apple or Amazon, instead we have a european alternative to that… what a nice dream 😇
I’m in the USA and I already don’t buy Amazon or Apple. Got my Fairphone 6 with e/OS and everything. I have not missed Amazon since I left. You have non-Apple options already.
This is a better rebellion than holding signs they just laugh at while getting pepper sprayed. If everyone does it, it will work. …but alas, nobody listens to me.
I mean, the far right is spamming Bannon’s playbook. If you look at Italy Meloni and Salvini are just playing along with everything Trump does. Both look up to Musk. And Italy was a founding member of the CECA and CEE. It’s a country with a long pro-EU tradition. Romano Prodi even made a big push for a common currency.
I hope there is nothing more uniting than a common enemy, and the threat against the eu males more people release how valuable it is
(Edit males -> makes)
eu males is a typo?
Freudian typo
Buttery males
Brexit was a pretty good example of how incredibly dumb that is. Efforts in other EU countries to garner similar sentiments have largely failed IMHO, so I don’t think this is a credible threat.
How is it not a credible threat? Right-wingers are making gains or are already in control in nearly every EU country. Germany, Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Hungary, Czechia… They are screaming about “immigrants” and how “the white race is dying”.
Right wingers have already lost most of the gains they made in most EU countries. There is a pattern where right wing parties gain enough votes to get into parliament, fuck it up massively and then lose again in the next election. So far only Meloni in Italy seems to be doing well. So they can scream all they want, but that doesn’t mean they’ll get anywhere.
Be careful doubting it. That’s what we did over here. The small minority with a bunch of big tech bots stoking flames against “the others” can get out of control fast. Honestly, it’s almost like they allowed an immigration problem to occur just so an enemy would exist.
Yes, that’s what happened in NL too. The previous government was a horrible combination of extreme right-wingers, a farmers party and the regular right-wingers, who all didn’t like or trust each other. Predictably they failed to realise even the simplest of their promises and they blew it all up when right-wing voter opinion started to turn sour after it looked like they would have to water down some of their promises in order to get anything done. The last election was a massive win for centre parties, although we unfortunately narrowly failed to make the left-wing party the biggest one. And this pattern has played out in a similar way in several EU countries in the past year(s).
But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
“Fuck the EU”, as Nuland said. Everything is out in the open but people hate Russia, understandably, more and will do anything in the hope of beating them instead of understanding that the war was triggered to leave no other option to the EU but to do what the US wants.
The politicians are groomed. It doesn’t matter which parties are elected. There won’t be any real attempt at souvereignity. Instead internet surveillance will be introduced to prevent citizens from organising, but it is accepted because it protects us from Russia.
The EU will not be split up. The EU is the tool to align all of Europe. The EU is what Ukraine is fighting for. The right wing parties just distract people from demanding what they want like higher wages but the US won’t allow them to dissolve Europe.
How do you think the EU as a whole should or will react?
What do we want? If we do nothing, life for the middle class will become similarly precarious as in the US. Still more resources than most of the world but huge existential risks.
In general, most of what can be done will lead to nothing because the US came prepared and they will have countermeasures for most things.
To react differently, people would have to agree on what they want instead. If they just want a better-paying job without any other change then there is not much that can be changed.
Messing with national elections.
Giving campaign speeches for far right nationalist parties. Supporting Le Pen in France, AfD in Germany, etc.
Pouring money into ad campaigns and propaganda on social media, either overtly or covertly.
Boycotting EU institutions while offering too-good-to-be-true bilateral deals to individual EU member states which can again be used as an electoral platform for populists.
The list just keeps going. I think they call it hybrid warfare.
Why are you using Australian slang words for US Americans in a European community?
The are so many layers to that word.
Ioannes -> Johannes -> Jan -> Janke -> Yankee -> Yank -> Septic tank -> Seppo
From the ancient Greek name for “John”, through Dutch, into English as an insult against other English speakers, then finally through Aussie rhyming slang to make it completely unrecognisable.
we’re cooked.
The new-hotness of right-wing nationalism has basically no resistance from the floundering traditional parties. The bloated mass of politicians, fat from the gravy train of post-war Europe, are too inept to provide any counter to this.
I don’t see a realistic way to avoid this.
I worry about this too. There’s lot’s of things the EU should do (and indeed, lots of things they should have done ages ago) about this, but it’s entirely possible that they’ll just sit there writing strongly-worded letters to each other while the US and Russia steam-roller them from each side.
strongly-worded letters to each other
I’ve kind of always liked that about the EU, in principle. Valuing diplomacy and debate over brash, sweeping decisions. It seems, if nothing else, slightly more democratic. Politicians are debating because they’re representing opposing ideas, which in turn represent the people that voted for them.
But this united front of idiot forces with slogans like m.a.g.a, take back control, stop the boats and doubtless others in languages that I dont understand, they don’t sit around and debate.
I guess what I’m saying is that what should have been the EUs greatest strength, is in fact, today, one of it’s greatest weaknesses. Unfortunately, being united for a terrible cause is more powerful than being united over basically nothing.
We’re 1,5 billion peoples. It would be incredible stupid to mess with us.
EU is 450 million in population. Nevertheless, the statement is still valid, that this is a massive population size and it is not to mess with. But in pricipal, divide and conquer could break this up in to managable pieces.
