Guess not. Suppose you’re just a giant piece of shit if you think hating nazis is a bad thing. Oh well, I gave you a chance to not protect fuck faces, but you thought a stupid joke was more important.
Sarcastically, which defeats the whole point. If sarcasm is being used as a thin shield to promote nazism, that doesn’t do anything to deny that. In fact, it only reinforces that interpretation. And I don’t give safe harbor to fascists.
Assume this person is being earnest in both comments. Notice how, when doing that, the second comment now changes to confirming that they’re being a Nazi sympathizer.
I have one. I use it to see what happened in the past and adjust how I act based on the future I want to see in the world.
Oh! Did you mean that I should use it to reduce social tension as a approximation for social cohesion? Not gonna fucking do that. I prefer real social cohesion, where I can trust that those around me aren’t nazis. And not because I hope they aren’t, either.
No, I’m acting knowing the strategy of an enemy to the encounters I have on an anonymous social platform.
If you think that someone genuinely asking if something is sarcastic can be responded to with a sarcastic response and that will somehow clear the air… then you spend a lot of time around people that you know well. I don’t know you people, you don’t get the benefit of the doubt enough to joke about being a fascist.
Yeah, the nazi jokes on 4chan were extremely blatant too. Too bad real nazis pointed to the sarcasm as “people saying what they actually believe, but with sarcasm as a thin shield”. And that’s how the fucking nazis came back.
There’s no such thing as blatant sarcasm. I don’t know that person, do you? The sarcasm in their comment is rooted in THE JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN WHO THEY ARE AND THEIR JOKING POSITION. If you don’t know who they are, how the fuck do you know they aren’t being sincere? Or, stated another way, how do you stop someone from misinterpreting who they are?
I’ve tried reminding people to use the sarcasm tag, people get mad that I’m ruining jokes. I try asking if it’s sarcasm, usually works to defuse and resolve the issue, but then you get people who dig in their heels.
Lemmy is still small, we are extremely vulnerable to take over by reactionaries. I’m doing my part as a good citizen to stop assholes from incurring here. I’m sorry if that makes me seem like the fun police or someone who doesn’t understand comedy (which, like, shouldn’t be an offending position).
And yeah, I went too big here, but it’s so frustrating when no one cares about it or takes it seriously. I like this place and I don’t want it be taken over by terrible people.
Bringing my own snark back in line here for some actual discussion, throwing out a different perspective as food for thought.
The line he’s using has been pretty memed so that’s why I said blatant. A quick scroll through history showed some shots taken towards conservatives and maga and not really anything supporting far right.
Being hostile to people who don’t see the point of adding sarcasm tags isn’t so much helpful as making it an unpleasant place to be in, and adding “I gave you a chance” when you’re also some shmuck on the internet like the rest of us comes across incredibly condescending. Especially when it’s not exactly a “rule” on the internet to tag your content with a sarcasm tag. Even if the intent is good, it’s just digging the hole deeper. It’s not just the other guy who sees it, it’s everyone else.
Some people respond well to being asked, few if any respond well to being told to do things by randoms, especially if followed by hostility. If your goal is for someone to change what they’re doing you have to consider how they will interpret you asking. Some people will double down but how that’s responded to also contributes to how other people will react when asked in future.
Lemmy is small but also does itself no favours by being incredibly hostile to new users (in particular people who come from Reddit, which drives me nuts as Lemmy seems to function as a Reddit alternative by all outside appearances). That’s anecdotal but I see it all the time here. In the same vein I also see a lot of calls for violence.
We’re vulnerable to being taken over by reactionaries but going overboard on random people for memes is just going to drive normal people out and keep the reactionaries in. It just seems to be an issue that’s compounding and I don’t really have a good solution, we’re living in fucked up times
I have a solution. I’m implementing it. If you have an improvement on my solution, I’m all ears. If not, kindly just let me keep doing what I’m doing.
I don’t pass judgment when asking if the person is sarcastic. I’m only hostile once they refuse to clarify. (Being sarcastic in response isn’t clarifying. If a person missed the sarcasm the first time, doubling down makes you kind of a dick, regardless of what you’re actual motives are). That hostility is, by design, asymmetrical. Because I’m not targeting the person making a stupid joke. I’m making nazis and fascists unwelcome. I can’t be charitable because doing so, again, makes the space more welcoming to those I don’t want to be here.
Making nazis feel unsafe is the only way to keep them out of a space. You can’t continence any of them, regardless of how “respectful” they are. Social cohesion is not made from a lack of social tension, it’s made from trust that those around you aren’t hostile to your existence.
No, why would I be sarcastic about thinking that someone who thinks nazis aren’t bad is a bad person? Is that something you think should be normalized?
Mind you, if they are being sarcastic then they think it’s better to give safe harbor to nazi sympathizers than to ruin a joke, and that’s kind of pathetic if you think about it.
There is another argument that making fun of them disarms them. But that needs their sarcasm detectors to be working and we remember how well that went with e.g. The Colber’ Repor’ which was blindingly obvious satire.
I propose a technical solution: a timed /s tag that is revealed after 24 hours. We can have our fun with them without having to make the dreary /s everywhere but it’ll be in the history marked as satire/sarcasm. You’re welcome. (It won’t happen)
Me? Would I ever?
Are we playing that Whose Line game where everything must be phrased as a question?
Guess not. Suppose you’re just a giant piece of shit if you think hating nazis is a bad thing. Oh well, I gave you a chance to not protect fuck faces, but you thought a stupid joke was more important.
You know the comment you’re replying to confirmed that they were being sarcastic, right?
Sarcastically, which defeats the whole point. If sarcasm is being used as a thin shield to promote nazism, that doesn’t do anything to deny that. In fact, it only reinforces that interpretation. And I don’t give safe harbor to fascists.
Assume this person is being earnest in both comments. Notice how, when doing that, the second comment now changes to confirming that they’re being a Nazi sympathizer.
Get a brain.
I have one. I use it to see what happened in the past and adjust how I act based on the future I want to see in the world.
Oh! Did you mean that I should use it to reduce social tension as a approximation for social cohesion? Not gonna fucking do that. I prefer real social cohesion, where I can trust that those around me aren’t nazis. And not because I hope they aren’t, either.
You are not saving the world by overreacting to a joke.
Holy shit! How could I have not known that? /s
I’m sorry mate but if you read anything sarcastic as earnest, it’ll mean something totally different. I just think you’re inventing an enemy here 🤷♂️
No, I’m acting knowing the strategy of an enemy to the encounters I have on an anonymous social platform.
If you think that someone genuinely asking if something is sarcastic can be responded to with a sarcastic response and that will somehow clear the air… then you spend a lot of time around people that you know well. I don’t know you people, you don’t get the benefit of the doubt enough to joke about being a fascist.
It was pretty blatant sarcasm.
Maybe next time we can ask him to spell it out in crayon for the main character in the room.
Yeah, the nazi jokes on 4chan were extremely blatant too. Too bad real nazis pointed to the sarcasm as “people saying what they actually believe, but with sarcasm as a thin shield”. And that’s how the fucking nazis came back.
There’s no such thing as blatant sarcasm. I don’t know that person, do you? The sarcasm in their comment is rooted in THE JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN WHO THEY ARE AND THEIR JOKING POSITION. If you don’t know who they are, how the fuck do you know they aren’t being sincere? Or, stated another way, how do you stop someone from misinterpreting who they are?
I’ve tried reminding people to use the sarcasm tag, people get mad that I’m ruining jokes. I try asking if it’s sarcasm, usually works to defuse and resolve the issue, but then you get people who dig in their heels.
Lemmy is still small, we are extremely vulnerable to take over by reactionaries. I’m doing my part as a good citizen to stop assholes from incurring here. I’m sorry if that makes me seem like the fun police or someone who doesn’t understand comedy (which, like, shouldn’t be an offending position).
And yeah, I went too big here, but it’s so frustrating when no one cares about it or takes it seriously. I like this place and I don’t want it be taken over by terrible people.
Bringing my own snark back in line here for some actual discussion, throwing out a different perspective as food for thought.
The line he’s using has been pretty memed so that’s why I said blatant. A quick scroll through history showed some shots taken towards conservatives and maga and not really anything supporting far right.
Being hostile to people who don’t see the point of adding sarcasm tags isn’t so much helpful as making it an unpleasant place to be in, and adding “I gave you a chance” when you’re also some shmuck on the internet like the rest of us comes across incredibly condescending. Especially when it’s not exactly a “rule” on the internet to tag your content with a sarcasm tag. Even if the intent is good, it’s just digging the hole deeper. It’s not just the other guy who sees it, it’s everyone else.
Some people respond well to being asked, few if any respond well to being told to do things by randoms, especially if followed by hostility. If your goal is for someone to change what they’re doing you have to consider how they will interpret you asking. Some people will double down but how that’s responded to also contributes to how other people will react when asked in future.
Lemmy is small but also does itself no favours by being incredibly hostile to new users (in particular people who come from Reddit, which drives me nuts as Lemmy seems to function as a Reddit alternative by all outside appearances). That’s anecdotal but I see it all the time here. In the same vein I also see a lot of calls for violence.
We’re vulnerable to being taken over by reactionaries but going overboard on random people for memes is just going to drive normal people out and keep the reactionaries in. It just seems to be an issue that’s compounding and I don’t really have a good solution, we’re living in fucked up times
I have a solution. I’m implementing it. If you have an improvement on my solution, I’m all ears. If not, kindly just let me keep doing what I’m doing.
I don’t pass judgment when asking if the person is sarcastic. I’m only hostile once they refuse to clarify. (Being sarcastic in response isn’t clarifying. If a person missed the sarcasm the first time, doubling down makes you kind of a dick, regardless of what you’re actual motives are). That hostility is, by design, asymmetrical. Because I’m not targeting the person making a stupid joke. I’m making nazis and fascists unwelcome. I can’t be charitable because doing so, again, makes the space more welcoming to those I don’t want to be here.
Making nazis feel unsafe is the only way to keep them out of a space. You can’t continence any of them, regardless of how “respectful” they are. Social cohesion is not made from a lack of social tension, it’s made from trust that those around you aren’t hostile to your existence.
Sarcasm?
No, why would I be sarcastic about thinking that someone who thinks nazis aren’t bad is a bad person? Is that something you think should be normalized?
Mind you, if they are being sarcastic then they think it’s better to give safe harbor to nazi sympathizers than to ruin a joke, and that’s kind of pathetic if you think about it.
Autism?
Yeah. Doesn’t change the fact that being sarcastically nazi sympathizers makes nazis feel safe.
There is another argument that making fun of them disarms them. But that needs their sarcasm detectors to be working and we remember how well that went with e.g. The Colber’ Repor’ which was blindingly obvious satire.
I propose a technical solution: a timed /s tag that is revealed after 24 hours. We can have our fun with them without having to make the dreary /s everywhere but it’ll be in the history marked as satire/sarcasm. You’re welcome. (It won’t happen)
Nazis deserve to be called out for how pathetic and stupid they are. Sarcasm is too nice for them.