E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we’ve seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:
- The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
- Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU’s own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you’re running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won’t be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We’ve already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They’ve also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we’ve already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as “dangerous” and “untrusted”. This will most certainly carry into their new “verification” system.
Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
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I just bought the Fairphone 6 with /e/os. I am pleasantly surprised with how many apps work just fine.
indeed, android has been a shit show for the last couple of months and its not looking good
Check out postmarketOS, a real Linux distro for phones with a 10-year life cycle goal and mainline kernel support. It’s not daily-driver ready for everyone, but it frees you from Google and OEM lockdowns. If we want an open mobile future, this is the project worth supporting.
I’m about a tech zero skill but I am at Lemmy for THIS news. Thank you for resisting complete shitification hegemony. Resist!
I just hope that this time we go Free Software and not committing the mistake of going Open Source for a 3rd time (BSD/UNIX AT&T; Android/Google). Unless we want to fall with the same stone yet once more.
Android going Open Source allowed Google to close Android once it got mature. It’s a Trojan Horse, yet people still go Open Source and then complain when some company closes their source.
By the way, outside of our brawl down below, I do agree with you 100% that having a fully functional and modern Linux phone would be an amazing thing to have.
I’ll switch away from Android when there’s a good alternative, but I’m not very technical and need something with a nice GUI and an easy installation process. Hopefully Linux will offer something like that someday, but I don’t think it’s there yet.
It would be cool to see people move beyond the standard smartphone and into some sort of hotspot and linux based palmtop or umpc like setup
I had something like that in the early 2000s with a nokia n800 and it worked well enough I’m sure it would be even better now
Currently i am looking for a Jolla phone https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
They are private company but seems to be very user friendly and carefull with their dev community. What do you think about them folks?
not bad at all, i saw it on thelinuxexperiment video and I like it
the vast majority of commenters here either have no direct experience with a Linux phone or have seen some shallow youtube “review” of a dude swiping the same two screens left/right and extrapolate a buncha shit that has no contact with reality.
presently, and in the foreseeable future, linux phones aren’t an android alternative, they are just linux on the phone, i.e. they allow you to do linux shit on a handheld device.
like, the bleeding edge version of any variant (plasma mobile, gnome, phosh) isn’t even close to an Android phone from like 2015, let alone a modern one.
and that’s before we touch on the pillars of mobile tech like fluidity, battery efficiency, reliability, etc., none of those things are even in a remotely passable state, not to mention - using the thing to make calls. you are better off forgetting about the camera, as well.
and the reason is simple, not only is there a gargantuan discrepancy between evil corp’s resources and the predominantly unpaid enthusiasts, each dev team’s reimplementing shit that’s already solved on another platform. apple doesn’t have to do that. google as well.
then there’s the idea that the javascript-backed Gnome - that has issues running fluidly on super-capable hardware - is the basis on a low-power device on which the linux mobile phone experience is built. reinventing solved shit, but in a stupid way - THREE FINGER swipe on a phone, really?
although there’s a solid app base, the apps that are supposedly mobile friendly are few and far between, most are just downright unusable on a vertical screen and dog help you if launch an electron app. firefox, even with pmOS patches (useless without) is tiresome to use. you can forget about dating, ubering, banking, or even just using a messenger everybody else does.
if you’re squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.
finally, if you’re talking about a device that you’ve grown accustomed to to the extent that you’re using it subconsciously, swiping and multitasking and such whilst walking and dodging other pedestrians - no such thing exists over here.
I’m just tying this up because I keep reading about “switching”, people are either delusional or misinformed, there’s nothing (yet) to switch to.
get a couple of $50 ex-flaghips to play with, flash lineageOS on one and pmOS on the other and that should hold you over for a coupla years.
if you’re squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.
What?? PmOS and Ubuntu Touch both have very easy, foolproof installers. No idea about Mobian to be fair.
I’ve been using only Linux-based mobile OS’s since my first smartphone, and while you’re right for a lot of the new breed made for the Pinephone and Librem, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch are both perfectly useable for lots of people. Both have a decent app ecosystem and both support running Android apps to fill in the gaps (I’ve used both, the proprietary Jolla one is about as good as it gets and is practically seamless for like 99% of Android apps).
Of course there’s going to be people who will respond to me to say they can’t possibly switch because of that one app that they and 5 other people in the world use, as though they’re in any way relevant to what I’ve said. Just the same as when I post about people switching to Linux on the desktop and there’s always that one Fusion 360 user who thinks everyone in the world also uses Fusion and so Linux can’t possibly ever work for anyone.
This seems less of a problem in the US, but a lot of stuff here is done with some apps that won’t run on these distributions.
Banks have created identity provides which now the government also uses, and they’re locked down to Android and iOS. Without these, making payments or do other stuff you need your identity for gets hard. And there are used by hundreds of thousands of people daily.
If they can run, I’d switch over instantly, but now I’m pretty much stuck.
To be fair, Fusion 360 is pretty good… I hate to love it, to miss it. I can’t wrap my head around the work flow in FreeCAD.
But more often I am shocked by people saying they have to stay on windows because of Office… Like, the fuck? MS doesn’t even want you to have that installed on your computer anymore and is pushing all web based, but that is going to keep you on Windows?? Nothing there is particularly hungry, just put it in a VM if you absolutely can’t get by with one of the several great alternatives.
UT and mobian need to be on stock, ancient versions of android prior to flashing. that is a challenge in an of itself, just check out what it takes to go from lineage A15 to stock A9. also, “easy” and “foolproof”, please - you’re not the target audience I’m addressing.
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
I’m not critiquing your post, I’m just clarifying to a buncha people who think otherwise that it’s not an option.
as to “it needs to accelerate”, I have a grim outlook. the only way it’s gonna do that is if there significant cash behind it and if everything non-essential is to be trimmed so that a functional platform can emerge. in our ever-enshittifying, greater-fool-theory investment climate, it’s doubtful there loose capital with such an agenda, and I doubt such a thing is even on the horizon.
same way with “desktop linux”; like, can you image where we’d be if every development effort is geared towards just one DE/WM, instead of tons of duplicated efforts and abandoned paths? yeah, good things eventually emerge from all the disjointed chaos, but eventually. and our joint assessment is that we’re running outta time for the “eventual” part.
Eh, for desktop I’d say we’re just about there now. For people who don’t use their computers for much more than gaming and web browsing Bazzite works pretty great. Helped a friend who doesn’t do much more than that build a PC and install an OS and they seem to be doing fine with it, no complaints so far.
It’s not great but lots of people are using it today. There are multiple entire businesses built on it. It may not fit your needs but it obviously does for many. And it’s only going to get better.
see, this is the thing I’m talking about. your comment indicates that it’s possibly a viable alternative to OS developed by the wealthiest corps in the world, for 15+ years and people are like “ok, there’s options”…
it is nowhere near that. it’s linux on a mobile device, and that’s such a humongously, vastly different thing than an alternative and that should be the first and foremost thing said. same with the “android is linux” bozos in every thread (it really, really isn’t) who are not helping the issue, at all.
and then we can dwell on whether it’s usable or not in its present state.
it’s possibly a viable alternative to OS developed by the wealthiest corps in the world, for 15+ years
It already is. It’s just a matter of porting it over to a different form factor.
Thank you. I get what OP is saying, but in general I’m so over the constant blind Linux fanboy hype train, like it’s the solution to everything. One of the reasons I can’t really stand to be on this instance unless I see something important enough to hit the front page. I’ll take a remotely functional windows dist with customized features over pretty much any linux OS anyday in order to not struggle to complete the most basic, essential tasks.
Life’s too short to spend glued to Stackexchange instead of actually getting shit done.
Spoken like someone that’s never actually tried Linux. Enjoy your electron start menu, shill.
What are these “most basic, essential” tasks you’re struggling with? Outside of trying to get Discord to screen share nicely with Baulders gate 3 and the one time I accidentally overwrote the python 3 install and broken it, it has been pretty pain free. And I code with both .NET and with Android Studio, I do plenty of gaming, and some photo editing. All things beyond the most basic of tasks and I rarely run into issues.
Have I broken a Linux install? Yep. But I’ve also bricked a handful of Windows systems poking around in the registry.
Not to mention navigation and using the car screen.
Osmin on PinePhone was… Tolerable. I’m just pleasantly surprised it worked okay with GPS being integrated into the modem.
Takes a long time to get a GPS fix (like old standalone GPS units), but it’s possible to provide A-GPS data to it.
dating
What dating apps work in Andorid? Lol
There is always the option of waydroid to get android apps running on Linux. It’s not a great solution, but a first stopgap measure to use services only available as apps.
That’s a security nightmare
that’s not a thing, presently. the OS has trouble running on its own and handling “native” apps, let alone introducing an emulation to the mix.
of course, it can and does work to some extent - but not one where you depend on it, like you do with modern phones.
Is it possible to have my normal shitty samsung for stuff that wont work on a linux phone, and have like a pinephone for simple calls and stuff, but have them both use the same phone # ? I doubt.
Cuz when hiking or something I like a phone for safety but I dont want distractions.
It’s possible using VoIP. Have done it before.
Can you explain how to do this? I’d make the switch, honestly. Not a super techy person, but I’m willing to learn if it means a Linux phone.
Just sign up with your service of choice and log in on whatever devices you want.
Someone suggested jmp.chat elsewhere.
i still think that the Linux Mobile ecosystem is bad(even worse then Desktop Linux), i want it to happen and become as good as Desktop Linux.
also i am pretty sure Google cannot fully get rid of AOSP, especially Android is put on any phone that isn’t Google.
tho even before the Goolog fuckery these things where there.
Samsung required a a leaked program to Unlock its bootloader(Odin which is proprietary), and would trip Knox.
Xiaomi required a wait time to unlock its bootloader, and the unlocking bootloader thingy is proprietary.
Banking apps wouldnt work with root and stuff, even before the Play Integrity API forcing thingy.My next phone will be a ThinkPad because it has a SIM card slot.
ThinkPads are built to last. I have one that is 17 years old running as my Pi Hole server to not only clear out all the ads and trackers online, but also any mainstream social media platforms and anything big tech related.
And as the cherry on top, a Raspberry PI to host my own SearXNG instance with a blacklist applied to that as well; to filter mainstream tech sites, big tech and also all mainstream social media platforms from my search results.
It’s been refreshing.
I bought mine (P14s AMD) this year and it works flawlessly.
Nice!
With the simcard slot can you use mobile data? If so thats amazing and I will be looking for that feature on my next device.
I have a laptop with a SIM slot and I can use mobile data, SMS and even make voice calls. It doesn’t support 5G though. Also the mobile hardware is crap, and I get like a 10th of the speed over 4G that I do on my phone, plus it chews through battery.
So yeah, awesome feature but not as nicely implemented as I’d like. Hopefully the Thinkpad version is better!
yep you can. actually a lot of business laptops other than thinkpads also have one, it’s very useful.
Probably, I will try that later.
I don’t agree!
A linux phone, or any other open source alternative, has ALWAYS been more important than the ones we’ve got. Being locked into an eco-system, has always been bad for the regular user. It’s about companies controlling people and the market, and it should never have to be a choice between a rock and a hard place.
I really wish that the Firefox phone had gained more support. And I wish that there will soon be a linux-phone for the regular person, all over the world.
But I guess people in general keep choosing to lock themselves in, by using Google and Apple…
It’s not a simple matter of choice. Most people aren’t invested into open source, they just want to get by and do their mundane things. Most people aren’t even aware of all the privacy stuff or abusive practices of big business, it’s usually some more outspoken tech savvy person that decides to expose what the big corps are doing. So using open source is not a choice, like you would be just choosing your preferred cereal brand, but both a technical and political act. And most people are just into the system, they aren’t aware of all malicious things around them.
Not only that, but also when companies feel threatened, they start imposing new technical and legal restrictions to make using OSS harder. Since they have more control over the whole production supply chain of devices, they have more cost effective options and even partnership with hardware vendors to make using OSS very hard or impossible.
How is it bad for the user? Most people don’t care and enjoy using their phones. Is it hurting them using iPhone or Android?
I already wrote why it is bad. I could mention even more areas. Don’t you know, it that why you ask? Or are you just trying to pick a fight?
Would a pixel phone running GOS be future proofed, or one day Google can just push out some hidden updates that prevent you from running it at all?
I mean Google could theoretically decide to stop open development entirely or lock the bootloader, and that would be the end of that.
Well if your not running Google’s OS. how can they push updates. My issue with GrapheneOS is the trackers. It well not warn if trackers are following you and if you have trackers you well spam everyone with unknown tracker following you.
Tracker blocking uses flawed heuristics. The only methods that are typically used are static lists which is just badness enumeration. There is nothing stopping the app/service from sending the data down a different domain that isn’t blocked or a domain that can’t be blocked without breaking the service.
Adding to that, how do we even decide what is a “tracker”? What is the definition? Some might say it includes all telemetry or crashlytics. Are those inherently malicious?
I don’t think it would make sense for GrapheneOS to include something flawed like a “tracker blocker” that lulls people into a false sense of security. They use robust and meaningful methods for improving the privacy and security of the OS.
