US immigration agents will have access to one of the world’s most sophisticated hacking tools after a decision by the Trump administration to move ahead with a contract with Paragon Solutions, a company founded in Israel which makes spyware that can be used to hack into any mobile phone – including encrypted applications.

The Department of Homeland Security first entered into a contract with Paragon, now owned by a US firm, in late 2024, under the Biden administration. But the $2m contract was put on hold pending a compliance review to make sure it adhered to an executive order that restricts the US government’s use of spyware, Wired reported at the time.

That pause has now been lifted, according to public procurement documents, which list US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) as the contracting agency.

  • Taldan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 day ago

    It has also said it has a no tolerance policy and will cut off government clients who use the spyware to target members of civil society, such as journalists

    Citizen Labs confirmed joirnalists have been targeted

    Nice of The Guardian to repeat their obvious lie without immediately calling it out. This is just NSO Group 2.0. They’re moving all the engineers over because even the US was willing to sanction NSO Group after everything they did

    • humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 day ago

      Yes. The leaders and their families will have their heads on pikes.

      Just being realistic, their families expect ours to serve them.

  • Basic Glitch@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    ·
    2 days ago

    I already know the answer to this, but I’m going to ask if anyway.

    How did we go from the most paranoid group of people choosing death over vaccinations bc of government surveillance conspiracies, literally storming the capital in an uprising over false rumors, and now that we have multiple confirmations of the most insane and ongoing 1984 government surveillance programs: fucking crickets?

    • Jason2357@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 day ago

      It’s always projection. They always assume the other side is doing what they do or plan to do. They tell on themselves years in advance.

    • ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 day ago

      They never cared about surveillance. If anything they want as much as possible. They just want their guys to be in charge for it. It is like how the people who use the strongest anti-child porn language are also the most likely to get caught with the worst child porn imaginable. You notice how roblox isn’t suffering under the new laws despite the laws being explicitly worded to protect children? This is because it was always about monitoring dissidents. Regular criminals will continue to use tech to do regular crime (drug dealing, murder, theft) and a minimal precaution on their end might be sufficient to prevent them from getting caught. They will not be subject to any more new restrictions.

      But protesters? That is what they have always been for. Always.

      • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        2 days ago

        Who think that these methods and policies will never be targeted at them because they are white and so were their grandparents.

    • HugeNerd@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      Fucking crickets is tough, wrap some tape around them first so they don’t burst.

    • w3dd1e@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      I read somewhere about AL being so racists because that’s where all the Nazi scientists went who started working on the space program.

      No idea if it’s true. Pretty sure the south was balls deep in slavery before that, but it does make some sense.

  • KIKILOVE@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    151
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    3 days ago

    Well well well. Isn’t it the real reason the west supports the genocide. By sending money there you can do “research” without having to worry about pesky stuff like privacy or human rights

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 days ago

        This is how I see it as a US citizen. Our violence is boomeranging hard which ok I don’t wish it on others but yes absolutely this is the future of the US.

        • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 days ago

          I mean, USA would probably have a better society were it carpet-bombed and then rebuilt. Or at least were it to experience a big war on its territory. Like, despite their flaws, many of the EU countries, and many others. Many of your problems are from misunderstanding dignity and strength ; war teaches you to respect the weak and to understand that it’s a sacrifice to be strong. Unfortunately that means a lot of murder, and to do a lot of murder, you pay with ever more murder. So I don’t want for that to happen, but at the same time I’m not sure if there’s even any other way to teach these things.

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        You know, for those of us who are not Americans, such statements sound completely devoid of empathy, as if something could only worry you if it “were the future for America”. And it really seems a pattern. It’s as if any crime were only real for you all there if it were somehow directed against America. I’m not even talking about being tone deaf, it’s just really strange how American think.

        • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          14 hours ago

          that’s what i’m saying. they’ve already been tightening our restraints for decades now, and it’s only really a problem now that they need to pull the proverbial copper from the walls and do it to themselves.

          i think this starts to make sense when you consider just how much nationalist propaganda they seem to be exposed to constantly, and its scary how ignorant some of them are of what happens outside their borders. and i mean ignorant, frankly some of them just seem hellbent on closing their ears and not listening to any of it. some just say heinous shit outright.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          such statements sound completely devoid of empathy

          Only enough empathy for 330M people?

          You sound like a real grade-A asshole.

          It’s as if any crime were only real for you all there if it were somehow directed against America.

          Less directed at than directed by. America is the premier purveyor of war crimes, ever since the Europeans fell off their game.

          The violence of the empire once more turning inward is notable in the US today in the same way it was notable in France at the start of their Long Nineteenth Century or Japan during the Meiji Restoration or Russia in the October Revolution.

          What starts here infests the rest of the world.

    • yucandu@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      23
      ·
      3 days ago

      the west supports the genocide

      You mean America. The rest of us are against this and have made policy moves against Israel.

        • yucandu@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          3 days ago

          No, policy moves. Sanctions. Freezing bank accounts. Banning arms sales. Don’t buy into the anti-West propaganda.

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              3 days ago

              I mean I’ve just learned from another poster that “their contributions represent less than 0.1% of Israel’s total arms imports” in the first place, so it’s not like there was much power or influence we had over Israel.

              They’re backed by the most powerful nation on earth. That’s all they need, they don’t need the rest of the West.

              • KIKILOVE@piefed.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                3 days ago

                Do you know about the dutch tradition of carving little iced alcohol (grain booze, the one they call genever or bols) into little balls and to suck on them? Maybe you can try that? Sucking my bols?

                Nitie nite süßer Panda xoxo

          • KIKILOVE@piefed.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            The only source I found about “Freezing bank account” is The Conversation (case in point about the lip service lmao)

            https://theconversation.com/eu-sanctions-against-israel-heres-whats-on-the-table-260982

            An arms embargo against Israel also appears unlikely, largely because Germany and Italy are, along with the US, Israel’s main suppliers of arms. Some European countries, including France, Spain and the UK, have either stopped the supply of weapons or suspended export licenses, but their contributions represent less than 0.1% of Israel’s total arms imports.

            If saying european governements are complicit with a genocide is AnTiWesT ProPagAnDa, then yes. Fuck the west.

            Here’s a random picture to close our interactions.

            Good day

            Good day

      • hector@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 days ago

        Oh? Remind me again how many countries have even an arms embargo against Israel? Or they have any sort of penalties against them outside of completely symbolic actions done well past the time they should have been? How many of those countries is it a crime to criticize Israel in? The UK and Germany at a minimum.

        • yucandu@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          Germany and the UK are the latest two that have issued arms embargos against Israel, however considering less than 0.1% of Israel’s arms come from outside America, they have little power or influence there.

          How many of those countries is it a crime to criticize Israel in? The UK and Germany at a minimum.

          Zero. It is not a crime to criticize Israel in either the UK or Germany. The BBC just published an article accusing them of genocide. You are spreading misinformation.

          Who benefits from this misinformation?

          • hector@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            It is in effect against the law to criticize Israel in Germany and now the uk. It is against the law to protest in the UK in effect.

          • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            The US deserves the vast majority of the blame here (along with Israel of course). The truth is though, for many in Germany and the UK including those at the highest levels of power they are if anything jealous to be missing out on the colonialism and genocide. Again, the US is absolutely the primary problem but… really? You are going to act like the US isn’t just following in the footsteps of the brutal colonial empires of England and Germany?

            German Chancellor Friedrich Merz on Wednesday defended his characterization of Israel’s airstrikes on Iran as “dirty work,” saying his remarks received widespread support despite some criticism.

            Speaking to reporters after meeting with state premiers in Berlin, Merz stood firmly behind his earlier comments that Israel was doing necessary “dirty work” for Western nations through its military actions against Iran’s nuclear program.

            https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/german-chancellor-defends-israels-dirty-work-comments-despite-criticism/3603583

            https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/germany-israel-dirty-work-merz-exposes-orientalist-roots-genocidal-zionism

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              2 days ago

              The truth is though, for many in Germany and the UK including those at the highest levels of power they are if anything jealous to be missing out on the colonialism and genocide.

              Sounds like you’re jealous of Europe being the best place on earth for worker’s rights.

              • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                2 days ago

                I mean, yes in so far as you can generalize, of course I am jealous of that!? You think I like being stuck at the bottom of a cruel hole lined with gold and bullet casings?

                What I am saying is open your eyes to your own history and recognize it is part of the same system and process whether or not the locus of power is currently within your empire or not.

                I don’t make this argument as a form of nihilistic relativism or try to rope other countries into the miserable complicity in yet another genocide the US has condemned itself too participating in. The US deserves FAR MORE blame than Germany, the UK, France or any other European country does.

                My point however is, don’t lose focus of the fact that the US is a cancerous reflection of the same tendencies towards empire, fascism, ethnic cleansing and xenophobia European history is full of. US history unfolds directly out of the worst parts of European history, you cannot deny it and if you continue to do so you hamstring your capacity to understand the coming threat to Europe that will eat away at everything your society holds dear in the name of fear of terrorism and the silhouette of an immigrant threatening to join your community and become your neighbor…

                • yucandu@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  Maybe if you stopped blaming all your problems on the West you’d be able to dig out of that hole.

        • yucandu@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          3 days ago

          I mean countries, their national governments. America is the only country that officially supports Israel. Every other country in the West has publicly criticized them, sanctioned them, banned arms sales to them. Including Germany and UK.

            • yucandu@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              2 days ago

              They aren’t. Name one country where you think it is illegal to protest in support of Palestine, and I will debunk the misinformation for you.

              • choochooMF@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                2 days ago

                There’s news reports all over the fucking place, here, mainstream media, social media. Wtf are you talking about? They’re all lies?

  • 3abas@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    21
    ·
    3 days ago

    For the Democrats/liberals who think they’re leftist in the room, note that this done by Biden, how it was put on hold for review so that news spread and pacifies the anger, and how it came back stronger when you forgot about it. And now Democrats will shrug and say “Trump is in charge, we’re powerles.”

    Democrats are not your friends, they are not a lesser evil, we need a revolution.

    • yeehaw@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 days ago

      Based on what has already happened, I’d definitely say Dems are the lesser evil. That’s literally what this means in this context. Still evil, just not as much as Donald dump.

    • hornedfiend@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 days ago

      Not defending democrats here, but it says it was halted pending reviews. I would say at least the democrats have some sense of following rules, while under the Trump administration, these were immediately lifted.

      Make of it what you will, but it’s pretty clear that following the laws/rules is a thing of the past in the US of A.

      • 3abas@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        2 days ago

        They have theatrics, it would have ended up the same way if Biden/Harris won. Democrats (Biden) introduced it in the first place, and your instinct is still to believe they opposed it?

    • hector@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      2 days ago

      The establishment dems still think they are playing good cop to Republican bad cop in 1990, even as the Republicans are openly playing Hitler now. Without getting new popular reform minded leadership there is no way we can take the country from this aspiring one party state.

    • Smoogs@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      2 days ago

      Dems didn’t invent ice.

      Nor Epstein

      Nor trump.

      Voters need to take some culpability to their own mistakes here and stop blaming it on anyone else but themselves for this shit show they created.

      • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        ICE was created by the Homeland Security Act of 2002, which passed with overwhelming bipartisan support. 90-9 in the senate and 42 Yeas came from Dems.

        • hector@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 days ago

          The Democratic Leadership knew the position we were in, yet they still refused to run a popular campaign offering any real reforms or attacking anyone increasingly gouging us and ran as the status quo while the Republicans ran as reform.

          We all knew the voters did not know better. The responsibility is in the establishments corner. Three presidential shit shows in a row and they are brushing off the old Hillary Clinton excuses blaming voters as if that would justify letting them stay in control of the party.

          • Smoogs@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            Blaming dems for what republicans do is some mental gymnastics.

            • hector@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              By running as they do they doom us to the Republicans. I do not see how that is hard for you to understand. Being better than the other guy is not enough to win elections, you should have realized that in 2016 at the latest, yet here we are approaching 2028 and you are still advocating for this doomed to fail policy despite being one election away from a permanently rigged system for a one-party state?

              And make no mistake it will be rigged every way it can be but 2028 we have a chance to take it from them in the succession fight. Not with the establishment leaders we have though.

              • Smoogs@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                2 days ago

                “Doom us to republicans”

                No this is bullshit as you’re choosing to vilify one for what the other is doing. If you blame your mistake on choosing worse for yourself and blame someone for your choice it is you to blame. It’s what enablers do to protect their abuser. You are speaking like a Stockholm syndrome right now.

                This. This is why you’re rigged right now. This is all on you for not holding republicans accountable for doing what they do. Blaming dems isn’t going to save you. You’re nothing more than an idiot if you thought this victimhood bullshit was ever going to get you saved rn. Do better.

                • hector@lemmy.today
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  You framing everyone as is critical of the opposition party as voting for the party and Power gives lie to your argument. That is an ad hominem you learned from the party in power and the opposition party.

                  And you did not answer the point, it is unanswerable so it makes sense you resort to ad hominems. By not being popular and running as the status quo in an Ever devolving plutocracy, the Democrats Doom us to Republican rule. That is evident.

        • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          It’s funny how one immigrant country is “securing homeland” from another immigrant country. At some point in the late XIX century US, Argentina, Brazil seemed similarly attractive directions for the “give me your tired …” thing.

          I had two books called “anthology of romantic and adventure”, pretty much only centered around sea travel, it had both poetry of a fascist Russian white movement member who was a submariner and “Tamango” by Merimee and Vysotsky’s songs and Poe’s short horror stories and Melville’s “Benito Sereno” racist story, in general a pretty equal mix of radical views of life, honestly, both the good and the bad ones.

          So - it’s mostly rather old stuff, as you might guess, and the image of all those overseas colonized lands is somehow similar and blended. Now you wouldn’t think that there’s much similarity between USA and Brazil and Argentina, LOL.

          OK, I just got carried away. Perhaps that moment when your whole country started feeling “settled” is when the bad things started accumulating (other than lynchings of blacks and lobotomies of autists, I mean). And started feeling less of a union and more of one country.

          EDIT: Forgot South Africa.

    • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      3 days ago

      Every early morning. Mine is right before my alarm goes off, so the notification sounds just meld.

      Also, no one should be using biometric data to log into thier phones. 6 digit pin isn’t very obtrusive once you get used to it

        • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          Sure bro, put a 30 character password into your phone every time you want to find the nearest fucking coffee shop.

          edit: I guess I should explain. I’m into privacy not necessarily absolute security. If a cop wants in my phone I forgot my PIN. There’s no biometric to get into it so he’s going to have to get a warrant if he wants anything to actually stick. With face ID he just holds it up to my face. With fingerprint he can force my finger onto the sensor. In the USA, don’t know about Europe.

          • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            3 days ago

            I just needed this info out there, I don’t really care what you do - I just need to make sure Lemmy stays safe and you’re spouting leaky insecurity disguised as best practices.

            Best of luck

            • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              3 days ago

              I think I just leaked a little right now. I don’t believe you have a 30 character unlock on your phone. That doesn’t make sense on a device someone uses multiple times a day in one hand at like a bus stop or something.

              And I’m no security professional, just some dumbass out in the street.

              • Tangent5280@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                2 days ago

                30 characters is like five words. Entirely doable. You can take your favorite TV show, sort character names by some logic and mispell a few of them to make a very strong very long password.

              • choochooMF@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                I use a 15 character pw with a mix of upper and lower case, numbers, and symbols, which according to that link is pretty damn good.

              • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                3 days ago

                Of course I do. FaceID allows me to input it exactly once a week, sometimes less.

                What don’t you understand?

          • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            3 days ago

            If you’re in the USA and a cop gets your phone they’re going to pop it onto a graybox and will be digging through your shit up to their elbows. I wish I were wrong

          • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            With biometrics I only enter it once a week, at the very most. It’s insane to me that people want their phones to be less secure, but best of luck to you and your super secure TSA lock on your phone lol

        • xthexder@l.sw0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          That’s for breaking a bcrypt hash, and I don’t believe there’s any way to extract the pin hash from a phone since it happens inside a secure hardware layer (like a TPM). If it is possible, the attacker would most likely have to physically destroy your phone to get at it. To bruteforce a 4 digit pin with retry lockout timers, it takes 16 hours to try all combinations, according to a tool I found that auto-enters pins via usb keyboard emulation.

      • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        worthless when there’s cameras in every corner that record as you unlock your phone all 40 times through the day

        • rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          2 days ago

          Fuck you too, buddy. You’re being recorded as you input your absurdly long password into your phone. They probably got it on camera. haha

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          I never said it was.

          My point is that killing the soldier doesn’t change the orders, they’ll just find another soldier. If one soldier isn’t willing to follow orders, they’ll find another that is.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 day ago

            You were kind of making the same defense though…

            The implication was that we shouldn’t blame the soldiers because they weren’t the ones who made the decision.

            That’s not how this works.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 day ago

              No, the implication is that targeting ICE agents doesn’t solve the problem. I’m not saying that ICE agents should be immune from the law, I’m saying that the root of the problem is the orders. If some ICE agents refuse to follow orders, they’ll be replaced by those who will follow them, just like a murder will replace a gun if it doesn’t function properly.

              The focus should be on the source of the problems, which is a mix of the law and the leadership. We should certainly hold ICE agents accountable for any laws they break, but targeting them w/ violence shouldn’t be the focus.

              • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 day ago

                If they fear actual consequences, then less people will be willing to join.

                They are literal extrajudicial fascist brownshirts that want my friends and neighbors dead. These are actual people under those masks, and they need to understand that their actions have consequences. I’m not saying people should go out and kill them, but I’m saying that they need to fear that.

                You can focus on both my dude.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  No, recruitment will just focus on hiring people that are okay with those circumstances, which means people with less empathy and quicker to use force. I’m not implying we should ignore illegal actions by ICE agents (we should absolutely hold them legally accountable), I’m just saying that it’s not likely to solve the problem w/o changes to the law and/or the leadership, especially given how the courts tend to give law enforcement officers a pass.

                  As people target ICE agents more and more w/ violence, the more violence they’ll use in response. Violence begets violence, and that’s not going to solve the problem.

                  What we need are lawsuits challenging the legality of their actions, and ideally criminal charges against the leadership making illegal orders. We need to pressure our representatives to change the law. We need to protest peacefully and get positive media coverage so our voices cannot be ignored. Violence isn’t going to solve it.

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 days ago

        Yeah, don’t blame the brownshirts kicking teeth in, blame the government that hires them /s

        They volunteered for this, they can sleep in the pit for it in the end.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 days ago

          Sure, I get the “just following orders” criticism, my point is that killing ICE agents wouldn’t solve anything. I imagine many of them joined long before the crackdown started and are there to arrest actually bad people (i.e. cartel members) and don’t like the direction the current admin is going. There are also plenty of people who support this nonsense too.

          Regardless, attacking the people following orders doesn’t change the orders, we should be attacking the top.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            I understand your point, but these people know what they’re signing up for and why they’re putting in the uniform every day. We shouldn’t pretend these people are in anyway innocent or not culpable for their crimes. Regardless of orders, these are people who are willingly causing pain, suffering and death to innocents.

            Fuck them. Fuck their bosses. None of them get any credit or sympathy. I don’t care if they started when ice was formed, they know what their orders are and are still there, what they signed up for is entirely immaterial. Also, ice was shit from the start, so even less sympathy from me.

            Regardless, attacking the people following orders doesn’t change the orders, we should be attacking the top.

            Making people hesitant to throw in with the brownshirts for fear of social reprisal is a perfectly valid strategy for attacking the top. Make less people want to participate in their crimes makes it harder for them to do crimes.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 days ago

              Make less people want to participate in their crimes makes it harder for them to do crimes.

              No, it just means the reasonable people will leave and it’ll attract the types who actually agree with it. There will always be more people to take those jobs.

              The real solution is changing the leadership and laws.

              • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                2 days ago

                That’s a much smaller pool of people than those who may willingly go along with it but object otherwise.

                Stop giving thugs a pass for being thugs, just because their bosses are shit. You can attack both, this isn’t some kind of mutually exclusive action.

  • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    2 days ago

    It’s as if we lived in a very silent storm. (Thinking of that moment with Putin and Xi caught discussing how today one can live till 150 ; I don’t think Trump will last that much, but someone else from their crowd - easily.)

  • angband@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    2 days ago

    this just brings them on par with local LEOs. these cabinets have charging ports and run brute force attacks on pins and passcodes, at least the simplest and cheapest options do.