• Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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    1 day ago

    Are these Russian and Chinese agents who want to divide “us” (who do you mean with “us”?) In the room with us right now?

    Any time you see “the left” pitted against “liberals”, you can safely ignore whatever bullshit else is on the page.

    I guess I can ignore about 150 years of history then, huh? Liberalism is a right-wing ideology, homie.

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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      13 hours ago

      Liberalism is a right-wing ideology, homie.

      Liberalism

      The doctrine of liberalism considers personal freedom to be the most important goal.

      The pursuit of personal freedom is right-wing? I didn’t know that. I still don’t know that!

      Does the left-wing oppose personal freedom as a top priority?

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        11 hours ago

        I don’t know what source that is and I don’t want to open that link again.

        Liberalism also has the guarantee of private property as another “most important goal”, which is why the ideology is so in favour of capitalism.

        Also, liberals mostly focus on negative freedom, i.e. freedom from inhibitions, while e.g. leftists focus on freedom to do something.

        So, yeah. Focusing on the freedom to squeeze your tenants for rent, destroy the environment, exploit your fellow humans, etc. is right wing.

        If you really want to understand the “left-right” political framework, I can’t recommends the channel “what is politics” on youtube enough. This video should be a short intro to the topic, while this one goes into more detail.

        • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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          5 hours ago

          no true scotsman

          No, you don’t get to decide which personal freedoms count & which don’t in what they stand for: they stand for personal freedoms.

          Liberalism is broad, and the linked site on party classifications shows it’s neither left nor right wing, though more specific subclassifications can be placed somewhere. Broadly

          it favours free markets, free trade, limited governments, low taxes and private property (economic liberalism) as well as equality for all citizens under the law, civil rights, secularism and freedom of speech and religion.

          You’re neglecting subclassification

          Social liberalism: Social liberal parties stress civil and human rights and favour a social market economy.

          which is leftist. Leftism is the pursuit of equality/egalitarianism.

          Let’s not pretend conservative liberalism or neoliberalism is the only liberalism.

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            8 hours ago

            No, you don’t get to decide which personal freedoms count & which don’t in what they stand for: they stand for personal freedoms.

            I don’t decide. I analyse. Liberals focus on negative freedoms. That is political reality.

            Liberalism is broad, and the linked site on party classifications shows it’s neither left nor right wing, though more specific subclassifications can be placed somewhere. Broadly

            OP meant liberal parties in the political context of the so-called “USA”. In that context, liberalism is right wing.

            You’re neglecting subclassification

            How. Your quote conicides with my argument. Liberalism is in favour of capitalism.

            which is leftist. Leftism is the pursuit of equality/egalitarianism.

            No. Watch the videos. Leftism is in favour of dismantling existing hierarchichal power structures in favour of equality. A “social market economy” is still capitalist.

            Let’s not pretend conservative liberalism or neoliberalism is the only liberalism.

            They have vital things in common. And I (and OOP) oppose pretty much the complete intersection.

            Back to topic: Liberals in the US definetly opposed the abolition of ICE. Probably because of the whole “rule of law” bu&iness in liberalism and because they think that ICE protects the interests of capital.

    • indomara@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Scarily enough, Eastern European bot farms with strong ties to Russia have been all over the internet for ages.

      https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/

      Also, Microsoft releases reports on foreign influence ahead of US elections:

      https://msblogs.thesourcemediaassets.com/sites/5/2023/11/MTAC-Report-2024-Election-Threat-Assessment-11082023-2-1.pdf

      https://msblogs.thesourcemediaassets.com/sites/5/2024/04/MTAC-Report-Elections-Report-Nation-states-engage-in-US-focused-influence-operations-ahead-of-US-presidential-election-04172024.pdf

      These influences now have moved overseas to the UK and Australia.

      It’s pretty universally accepted by anyone who cares enough to look that there are Eastern European (Russian) bot farms manipulating social media to divide and weaken Western countries.

      • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Scarily enough, Eastern European bot farms with strong ties to Russia have been all over the internet for ages.

        yeah, it’s how we got brexit and trump

      • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        Also, Microsoft releases reports on foreign influence ahead of US elections

        Funny how they also sell the “solutions” to this scary “problem”.

        • indomara@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I don’t follow.

          I was simply replying to the statement:

          Are these Russian and Chinese agents who want to divide “us” (who do you mean with “us”?) In the room with us right now?

          With some facts about that sort of thing happening, since many people seem to be unaware and take a similar tone implying it’s crazy.

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            1 day ago

            Just because something exists, doesn’t mean it’s valid to accuse someone of being that thing whenever they say something you don’t like.

            Nazis exist, too. That doesn’t mean it’s valid to accuse Anark of being a nazi.