Everybody was fine with 2% then trump who people claim to hate say nato countries need to spend 5% and now everybody want to spend 5%.From which country do you think they will buy ? It will be from the usa despite claiming that they want to get out of usa control. What a bunch of hypocrites
War is a racket. 5% of GDP is an absurd number. The only thing that could come out of this is a literal arms race. Everything being dictated by principles of game-theory will destroy this planet in no time.
So defence isn’t worth investing in? Try telling that to eastern europe.
I never said that. What I am saying is that increasing military budgets in central europe by 300% is not in line with the threat level russia poses. If I owned a large quantity of military-industrial stock, I would say the opposite.
Your statement is outright false.
Russia’s military spending surpasses the whole of Europe’s as Putin ramps up war budget, study says
Russian total military expenditure reached I$462bn in 2024, exceeding the total for Europe in USD at market exchange rates (MER) […] Estimable Russian spending in 2024 still represented the equivalent of 6.7% of GDP – more than double the levels in the years prior to its 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
yeah, those are magically adjusted for internal spending power. the raw numbers are: Europe holds a significant edge over Russia in military spending. In 2024, EU nations collectively spent $457 billion on defense compared to Russia’s $146 billion defense budget.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/europe-has-the-resources-to-defend-itself-and-back-ukraine-against-russia/ and the atlantic council is not a left or peace thinktank. those are nato boys.
These are the relevant numbers, and there are more investigations than this one with more or less the same conclusions.
okay. just so i get this right.
the eonomic block with 10 times the gdp, 3 times the (unadjusted) military spending and 3 times the population must increase their spending to 5% - which translates to 50% of russias whole gdp in order to defend themselves.
I will - respectfully - disregard that opinion.
e: gdp was missspelled
Nah, let them migrate to Ukraine. Let’s see how their views change when they experience the war themselves.
Well thats exactly what you’d get by not investing in defence, which is a deterrent for war.
And the only reason they decided to increase military spending is because dictator trump said so
For comparison America spends 3.4% of its GDP on military spending. Which is already extremely bloated.
Jacobin not wanting EU to have increased military spending, checks out. Surely it has nothing to do with an increasing threat Europe is facing on the east
Sorry, but 5% of the GDP is fucking insane. For Germany with an GDP of 4,5 Billion that would mean spending 225 Mrd. Euro. Thats nearly half of the current Budget.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/National-Accounts-Domestic-Product/_node.html
To provide context for english speakers, this would 4.5 trillion and 225 billion.
Germany uses a different system that adds two sets with the same prefix, one ending in -illion (million, billion) and -illiarden (milliarden, billiarden)
More context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
I agree. If we start spending half of our budget on the military, I’m going to lose my shit. 5% is some weird fantasy number, that somehow is actually discussed now? If not even the US, who are known for their excessive military spending, are even close to it, I’m sure you can have a proper military with a lot less.
How much is Russia spending?
That threat might be easier to contain if Europe didn’t waste all its soft power and international credibility supporting a genocidal apartheid regime and alienating the entirety of the non western world.
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca @acargitz@lemmy.ca
What an absurdly derailed form of whataboutism is this? Russia is waging a war against Ukraine and preparing to invade other European nations (as you can see from the Kremlin’s military spending). It was Russia which started this war and constitutes a threat to Europe, this has nothing to do with what happens in other world areas.
This a knee jerk reaction that misunderstands what I’m actually saying. It might have been whataboutism if I was making a “yea but what about whaaa” cheap shot at derailing the discussion. I wasn’t however. I talked about how the one situation impacts the other and is made more expensive and difficult by the other. Spain happens to be one of the very few western countries to speak up against the madness in the middle east and about the importance of international law. It is objectively harder to pass and enforce sanctions on Russia precisely because a bunch of non western countries just see the double standard and refuse to cooperate. Our support for the Israeli apartheid regime is making it harder to make politically the case for Ukraine, making it harder to encircle and contain Russia, erodes morale in our own countries and diverts resources and energy to adventurist dead ends.
How can you cover a story about that without even mentioning the reason for the EU’s rearmament and calling out Russia as the aggressor of the Ukraine war?
Jacobin is perpetrating the same anti-democratic talking points as many of its authors (such as Yanis Varoufakis and others). This is more a propaganda than an independent source.
The Spanish PM is also a close ally of China btw, the country which has been labeled as “decisive enabler” of Russia in its war against Ukraine.
Also, Mr. Sanchez nor the Jacobin mentions that Russia spends 7.1% of its GDP for military (according to SIPRI, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), and officially ~40% of its annual budget.
[Edit typo.]
Trump also rejected the idea. 🤣
All those who think investing in defense is not worthwhile like Mr. Sanchez may call Mr. Usyk, maybe he is willing to extend his offer to others. You can then see yourself what happens in Ukraine every day.
Mr. Sanchez is also arguing in bad faith. There is no need to cut welfare spending for the sake of defense. Europe can afford both, and must. Once again, Mr. Sanchez doesn’t appear to talk for his country and Europe but rather pursuing interests of others.
There is no need to cut welfare spending for the sake of defense. Europe can afford both, and must. Once again, Mr. Sanchez doesn’t appear to talk for his country and Europe but rather pursuing interests of others.
Well, in Germany the story is told the other way around: Now that we are investing in more defence, we have to cut social welfare.
Do you have something that fosters that opinion?
For now it doesn’t look like Germany would cut social welfare for military expenditure, the actual budget plans don’t say that.
Just to add to it: This is by no means my own opinion. It just shows the conservative playbook.
It’s the on going debate in German politics and media. Now-chancellor Merz focused his whole campaign in 2024 around „no debt“ (Schuldenbremse, schwarze Null). The first thing he does after becoming chancellor in 2025 is a 500 billion euro package (because of Ukraine, which is fair — but was completely against the campaign proposal) only for defence and infrastructure. In turn the coalition now argues that they cannot maintain „Bürgergeld“ (social welfare) or invest into education. People have to „work more“ because of the debt.
