Well this is where you and I break away and disagree then.
One, the founder of Zionism Theodore Herzl was very very clear what this was about. Its explicitly a settler colonial state exactly the same way the US or South Africa are.
Two, you don’t need your own country to have self-determination otherwise immigrants would not have come to the US seeking self-determination. As long as you were free to pursue whatever you want you have access to self-determination. A state is not necessary. Preferably Israel would be turned into a multicultural secular State instead of a Jewish Supremacy state. Any attempt to label Jewish people as in danger from this would be racist since the government would be secular.
Three, the Palestinians have every right same as the Jewish people and more so since they had a continuous presence in the land to also live there with self-determination.
Four, surveys overwhelmingly in Israel show a couple of things. Firstly they do show that Netanyahu is fairly unpopular for his handling of the hostage crisis. Overwhelmingly Israelis are fine with the actions of the IOF. Most recent polls show 80% want more aggressive action against Gaza. The governments line on comparing Palestinians to “Amalek” and the agreeance of the majority of the population Israel show that the genocidal rhetoric is not what’s unpopular with Netanyahu
Five, Israel has got to be one of the most racist places that I currently know about. It’s lovely watching all the videos in Flag Day where all of these lovely Jewish families were chanting “death to Arabs” in Hebrew which leads into one of the anti-Zionist Jewish points that Zionism is inherently racist since it specifically calls for a race of Jews.
If you want to commiserate with these points go to Reddit. Most on Lemmy are very aware of the history of Zionism, Israel, and Palestine.
Edit:
I can Source every single one of these claims. Let me know if you want them.
Nah this conflict’s a little over 200 years old since it comes directly from Theodore herzl’s work in 1850.
Many Jewish people did have a choice and many specifically chose not to move there.
The mass expulsions you’re talking about were Community Driven by those that Associated the Zionist actions of the nakba with the Jewish indigenous people. It’s unfortunate but that’s what happens when your group claims to be the sole voice of Jewish people.
Hell there’s at least one terrorist attack that occurred in Iraq that we know was caused by Israeli terrorists. We don’t know if they actually work for the government but we do know they were Israeli and we do know they were Zionist. This was because not enough Jewish people were moving into Israel to make it a viable state.
Let’s talk World War II. Obviously there’s the shoal. But what about the other 6 million people that were also killed that weren’t Jewish? You know the Kurds, Roma, disabled, lqbtq, mentally disabled, the Poles and other Slavic communities who all had a state that they belong to that we’re not defended by that state. Furthermore those people didn’t think they needed a state for self-determination.
Don’t forget the total dead in the Holocaust is 11 million. There’s more that suffered in that period than just the Jewish people.
I would love to talk about when the two State Solutions were going to become viable. Was it during the Oslo Accords when Israel refused to acknowledge a path to the two State solution? What about the abraham Accords? In fact name one time in a period of History where Israel has ever been okay with the two-state solution.
I’m sure whatever you have to prove that Israel was okay with the two State solution will absolutely not be a piece of United States or Mossad propaganda not missing critical details or misrepresenting the situation.
And furthermore as I said it’s not like the Jewish people could not have gone there they only had to integrate with the already existing Community rather than trying to supplant it with what they called their “Superior Jewish one”