White People: “Why can’t we use the N-word just because we’re white?”
Also White People: “Black people aren’t allowed to say Genocide.”
Left guy actually gets sanctioned by the West.
This was a comparison in the early 90s, when South Africa was doing more genocide/apartheid stuff. But not now.
Israel however is definitely doing a genocide.
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Trump is one of the people currently claiming there’s a “white genocide” in SA.
My original reply was on the mistake that your comment was a reply to UnderpantsWeevil . Once I realized that wasn’t the case, I deleted it.
Your original comment has changed dramatically from what I remember since then as well, so …
It’s funny þey feel like þey own þe word ‘antisemitism’
I’m sorry buddy, the thorn is a relic of the past. It’s not coming back.
All other other groups get to define what they feel is discrimination, prejudice, or hate speech against them, except Jews.
Yeah except they try in earnest to say that criticism of “their” country is “antisemitism”
Or that any criticism of Zionism is antisemitic. There are of course people who do use antizionism talking points as a defense for their anti-semitism but I feel like most people are able to draw the line pretty clearly.
Also the country is committing a genocide so there’s going to be quite a lot of hate for it and rightly so given that their responsible for at least 200,000 deaths. And anyone who tries to defend that is kind of get called out for it
And don’t want the world to remember that Palestinians are human beings, and also Semites.
Zionism is the use of the right to self determination of the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, currently as the state of Israel. If you deny the Jewish people the right to self determination, but support it for others, then that’s antisemitic of course.
You can criticize Israel’s current actions in the war in Gaza. Many Israelis do that all the time and have since early in the war. Most of those protesting in Israel against the Netanyahu government and for an end to the war wave Israeli flags and identify as Zionists themselves.
In practice, when people say they criticize Zionism, what they often actually want is for Israel to be destroyed. The state that is a home to and protects half of the Jews. The implications of that ends up pretty terribly for Jews. If you want half the world‘s Jews to be ethnically cleansed („go back to Poland“), of course that’s antisemitic.
Well this is where you and I break away and disagree then.
One, the founder of Zionism Theodore Herzl was very very clear what this was about. Its explicitly a settler colonial state exactly the same way the US or South Africa are.
Two, you don’t need your own country to have self-determination otherwise immigrants would not have come to the US seeking self-determination. As long as you were free to pursue whatever you want you have access to self-determination. A state is not necessary. Preferably Israel would be turned into a multicultural secular State instead of a Jewish Supremacy state. Any attempt to label Jewish people as in danger from this would be racist since the government would be secular.
Three, the Palestinians have every right same as the Jewish people and more so since they had a continuous presence in the land to also live there with self-determination.
Four, surveys overwhelmingly in Israel show a couple of things. Firstly they do show that Netanyahu is fairly unpopular for his handling of the hostage crisis. Overwhelmingly Israelis are fine with the actions of the IOF. Most recent polls show 80% want more aggressive action against Gaza. The governments line on comparing Palestinians to “Amalek” and the agreeance of the majority of the population Israel show that the genocidal rhetoric is not what’s unpopular with Netanyahu
Five, Israel has got to be one of the most racist places that I currently know about. It’s lovely watching all the videos in Flag Day where all of these lovely Jewish families were chanting “death to Arabs” in Hebrew which leads into one of the anti-Zionist Jewish points that Zionism is inherently racist since it specifically calls for a race of Jews.
If you want to commiserate with these points go to Reddit. Most on Lemmy are very aware of the history of Zionism, Israel, and Palestine.
Edit:
I can Source every single one of these claims. Let me know if you want them.
It’s not like the Jews had a choice. They fled from persecution and Israel was the only place most of them could go to survive. It’s a state founded by refugees fleeing oppression, persecution, and genocide. That makes it fundamentally different from other settler countries like Australia, the USA, Canada, all Latin American countries, and many more.
Most Israeli Jews didn’t even come there themselves, they were born in the land and have no other home.
Yes, Palestinians also have a right to self determination. Two state solution is the best option for that. Sadly they refused several of the good offers they got, especially around the turn of the millennium.
Of course there are racist and hateful Israelis as well. The overall society has understandably hardened their stance towards Palestinians since October 7th.
inherently racist since it specifically calls for a race of Jews
You could say that about any ethnic nationalist movement.
chanting “death to Arabs”
Similar chants are common in the other direction as well.
A hundred years of conflict have taken their toll.
Nah this conflict’s a little over 200 years old since it comes directly from Theodore herzl’s work in 1850.
Many Jewish people did have a choice and many specifically chose not to move there.
The mass expulsions you’re talking about were Community Driven by those that Associated the Zionist actions of the nakba with the Jewish indigenous people. It’s unfortunate but that’s what happens when your group claims to be the sole voice of Jewish people.
Hell there’s at least one terrorist attack that occurred in Iraq that we know was caused by Israeli terrorists. We don’t know if they actually work for the government but we do know they were Israeli and we do know they were Zionist. This was because not enough Jewish people were moving into Israel to make it a viable state.
Let’s talk World War II. Obviously there’s the shoal. But what about the other 6 million people that were also killed that weren’t Jewish? You know the Kurds, Roma, disabled, lqbtq, mentally disabled, the Poles and other Slavic communities who all had a state that they belong to that we’re not defended by that state. Furthermore those people didn’t think they needed a state for self-determination.
Don’t forget the total dead in the Holocaust is 11 million. There’s more that suffered in that period than just the Jewish people.
I would love to talk about when the two State Solutions were going to become viable. Was it during the Oslo Accords when Israel refused to acknowledge a path to the two State solution? What about the abraham Accords? In fact name one time in a period of History where Israel has ever been okay with the two-state solution.
I’m sure whatever you have to prove that Israel was okay with the two State solution will absolutely not be a piece of United States or Mossad propaganda not missing critical details or misrepresenting the situation.
And furthermore as I said it’s not like the Jewish people could not have gone there they only had to integrate with the already existing Community rather than trying to supplant it with what they called their “Superior Jewish one”
The Zionist propaganda is making you confuse the opinions of the Zionist party with the opinions of the Jewish people.
I would like to join your quest to bring back þe þorn. How do I type that?
Nevermind, I got it.
People in ye past : Writing out Yorn is such a pain, I’ll just use Y instead.
You guys : O shit, þorn? Imma use þe fuck out of þis!
Don’t be an anti-semantic grammar nazi, use ‘engage in’ not ‘commit’. This isn’t a code repository.
