I agree kinda, I don’t think Mao weaseled his way to becoming an absolute leader, more like history created the specific circumstances that lead to him in that position and the historical situation of the 20th century created all these leaders. We like to pretend that the west didn’t have these single person political leaders, but honestly what the fuck was Henry Kissinger or FDR? These figures exist all over 20th century history most countries literally had their leader.
Maos biggest mistake was not absolving himself of responsibility and power because guess what those things are fucking awesome and most humans who have responsibility and power love it and never want to give that shit up just look at old people.
Mao was ousted from power as time went on due to mistakes made during the Cultural Revolution. He wasn’t an “Absolute Leader,” he was extremely popular for successfully leading a socialist revolution and implementing extremely successful policies (towards the beginning and middle).
I’m not saying Mao was unaccomplished but towards the end he was considered an absolute leader and he was not very chill, he locked up a lot of people during the cultural revolution sometimes for quite arbitrary reasons. Some of his policies were also a disaster the backyard steel and culling of the sparrows are usually the two that westerners always like to hold on to.
The mistakes he made during the cultural revolution were really bad. I don’t hate Mao I read his little red book as a teenager and I enjoyed it, I just didn’t find it to be very relevant to me. I grew up in the west though I’m sure if you were a young Indian or something Mao would hit completely differently.
I also found it really interesting that deepseek would refuse to answer any questions on Mao. Anyways we should view these people as they were human beings who managed to become very powerful and made many of the mistakes that are associated with that. Honestly otherwise you’re just doing lefty great man stuff.
He was not considered an Absolute Leader. He held tremendous respect until he lost it from mistakes he made during the Cultural Revolution, and gradually lost political power and influence until his death. As someone in the US Empire, much of his writing on Dialectical Materialism and Party Work are immensely valuable, among other works. Nobody is denying the mistakes of Mao, we are denying the Great Man Theory aspect of your analysis that pins Mao as some absolute leader despite clearly being ousted once his policies were no longer popular.
As for Deepseek, it refrains from political discussion in general.
I don’t think Mao was a great man in the Thomas Carlyle sense, I think he was very powerful man who was at some point an absolute leader. I guess we just disagree on that point which is fine. Also when was Mao ousted exactly and where can I read about this because everything I have read Mao remained the chairman until his death. Deep seek has no problems talking talking about politics it doesn’t however want to talk about any Chinese politicians. I just tested it out.
What is an “absolute leader” if his policies were not accepted absolutely and his power was systematically weakened later in life? Mao held many positions throughout his life in the CPC, and was Chairman of the CPC until death, but more major positions like Premier were held by other figures, and his influence over the party waned as time went on within the positions he did retain. For instance, he stepped down as President in 1959.
He retained massive influence, but his influence was greater earlier on, and the influence of others rose as time went on. The CPC’s current evaluation of Mao is along the lines of “70% good, 30% bad.” They also, however, refuse to take the road of Kruschev with Stalin, which ended up contributing to the destruction of the Soviet Union.
I think there was a point when if Mao said jump you asked how high. I’m sure this wasn’t the case at all times and if you can give me some cool reading suggestions I’ll gladly check it out. I just think that sadly power dynamics like this can develop in political organisations no matter what ideology the members hold. If you really want to know my crazy beliefs it’s that hyper intelligence may not be an evolutionary beneficial trait, but who knows maybe I’m wrong maybe humanity will survive the complete destruction of earths ecosystems and global heating of 3-4 degrees which I think we will easily hit by 2100.
People respected Mao greatly due to his effectiveness and competence as a leader. That’s why he retained the positions he did until the very end, and why the Cultural Revolution was carried out. People listened to him because they trusted him and through experience knew he was competent. He wasn’t unopposed, nor was he the only leader, there were many other positions that held more direct influence.
As for climate change, it’s certainly happening, but the degree to which we can mitigate the most disastrous effects is rising due to countries like the PRC making it a top priority to combat.
Let’s see the whole carbon balance of the earth is changing instead of earth being a carbon sink it’s slowly becoming a carbon pump. We are loosing huge swathes of Forrest methane ice crystals in the artic and Antarctic are starting to thaw. It also turns out there is a whole lot more methane trapped under artic glaciers than we thought and those are all melting. I think the next 8 years are going to show that we hit the 1.5 degree target already, that’s like 70 years ahead of schedule. At some point we are going to try geoengineering whether we like it or not. I do agree that the PRC definitely takes climate change seriously but there are still more radical policy solutions that they should consider like not engaging in commercial fishing for 10-20 years if we still want to have any fish in the ocean.
Oh yeah Mao was definitely opposed people plotted against him all the time. Shit like that happens in every single political party. I’m an extremely pessimistic and cynical person, communism doesn’t get a pass from me. I’d still rather live in a country that took climate change and economic development with an eye on trying to help the poorest in society as seriously as China does, but I definitely appreciate the information freedom I get in the west even though that shit is slowly being eroded as well. What’s that old joke again?
Under communism you can make fun of your boss but not the politicians, under capitalism you can make fun of the politicians but not your boss.
I don’t think China is the dystopian hell that a bunch of libs and conservatives think it is, but like any place it could be a whole lot better.
I’m saving up money and I’m going to sign up for Chinese lessons at the Confucius institute here and hopefully I can learn a little bit and one day visit China and then I can talk to some people and see what it’s like for myself and not just rely on images and information other people produced. I also want to try learn more Spanish so I can check out Cuba but I find it very difficult to concentrate and learn now a days.
he locked up a lot of people during the cultural revolution sometimes for quite arbitrary reasons
He was not the one who signed arrest orders or ran trials though, a lot of different people were involved in that. You can’t blame Mao as an individual for stuff that other people did. You can’t run an entire state with just one person.
the backyard steel and culling of the sparrows
Nobody in the 60s knew about the importance of sparrows in agriculture. Not even in the West. I think it’s easy to say “oh well duh of course don’t kill the sparrows” but who here among us is an actual farmer? Who here knew that sparrows ate more bugs than grain before it was told to them? I can barely grow a plant, I have no room to judge others when it comes to growing food.
I just didn’t find it to be very relevant to me
I’m an adult in Europe and I find Mao’s writing to be both relevant and applicable. But there is Mao the general and Mao the chairman. By the end of his life he was definitely saying some stuff that I don’t think even he believed in. But theory is an all encompassing body, and that is true in all fields. One couldn’t read one physics paper about gravity and then say “now I know how to launch a rocket to the moon”. I opened up my copy of the red book randomly and here’s one:
“Take the ideas of the masses and concentrate them, then go to the masses, persevere in the ideas and carry them through, so as to form correct ideas and leadership – such is the basic method of leadership”
It makes perfect sense to me, but that’s also because I have the associated baggage to understand what he means there and how that fits in not only to more of Mao’s writings but also in regards to other figures, the ‘best practices’ if you will of organizing.
I also found it really interesting that deepseek would refuse to answer any questions on Mao
The deepseek devs want it to be mainly used for math, coding, and other STEM applications for lack of a better word. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact personally I think people should stop using LLMs as oracles so much and focus them on tasks instead. Deepseek produces great results (and all for free with no rate limits) if you give it some code to start with, because it needs proper framing of the project to avoid trying to overdo it. I usually start with chatGPT, have it do the first working version of the code, and then switch it to deepseek to finish it, and it works almost perfect on the first try.
I just recently learned that Methyl anthranilate, the artificial grape flavoring, also repels birds and is used heavily by the agro industry nowadays. I imagine because of all the other products they also use they don’t need the birds around anymore.
You can also use old cd-roms tied to a long-ish string btw, the sparkling makes birds stay away.
Meh environmentalists were dismissed and often persecuted in communist countries and generally not taken seriously, sorry I’m not giving them a pass here. Modern China is much better though.
Even if Mao didn’t sign all the arrest warrants and didn’t know what’s going on that doesn’t really absolve him in my eyes.
It’s cool that you find Mao relevant I don’t but that’s just my personal opinion and not a dismissal of the man himself. I forgot the dudes name but there is an American who was in China for most of the revolution and he knew Mao and said there was a huge difference between young and old Mao he definitely became more authoritarian and closed minded as he grew older. I read the little red book 14 years ago so I can’t remember much of it,I just remember not finding a lot of it to be applicable to my life at the time, maybe if I read it now it would be different.
I don’t use LLMs and I don’t code so I never use them. I was just more interested in what deep seek had to had to say about Mao and was suprised it wouldn’t even let you broach the subject. If I ask deep seek to tell me about bill Clinton it will give me a response, if I ask it to tell me about Mao or any Chinese leader for that matter which I find interesting.
Anyways out of all the 20th century revolutionaries Fidel was more my guy but that’s just personal preference I guess. IMO what is worst for socialism is socialist parties being unable to allow themselves to be criticised this was sadly often the case in communist parties.
I agree kinda, I don’t think Mao weaseled his way to becoming an absolute leader, more like history created the specific circumstances that lead to him in that position and the historical situation of the 20th century created all these leaders. We like to pretend that the west didn’t have these single person political leaders, but honestly what the fuck was Henry Kissinger or FDR? These figures exist all over 20th century history most countries literally had their leader.
Maos biggest mistake was not absolving himself of responsibility and power because guess what those things are fucking awesome and most humans who have responsibility and power love it and never want to give that shit up just look at old people.
Mao was ousted from power as time went on due to mistakes made during the Cultural Revolution. He wasn’t an “Absolute Leader,” he was extremely popular for successfully leading a socialist revolution and implementing extremely successful policies (towards the beginning and middle).
I’m not saying Mao was unaccomplished but towards the end he was considered an absolute leader and he was not very chill, he locked up a lot of people during the cultural revolution sometimes for quite arbitrary reasons. Some of his policies were also a disaster the backyard steel and culling of the sparrows are usually the two that westerners always like to hold on to. The mistakes he made during the cultural revolution were really bad. I don’t hate Mao I read his little red book as a teenager and I enjoyed it, I just didn’t find it to be very relevant to me. I grew up in the west though I’m sure if you were a young Indian or something Mao would hit completely differently.
I also found it really interesting that deepseek would refuse to answer any questions on Mao. Anyways we should view these people as they were human beings who managed to become very powerful and made many of the mistakes that are associated with that. Honestly otherwise you’re just doing lefty great man stuff.
He was not considered an Absolute Leader. He held tremendous respect until he lost it from mistakes he made during the Cultural Revolution, and gradually lost political power and influence until his death. As someone in the US Empire, much of his writing on Dialectical Materialism and Party Work are immensely valuable, among other works. Nobody is denying the mistakes of Mao, we are denying the Great Man Theory aspect of your analysis that pins Mao as some absolute leader despite clearly being ousted once his policies were no longer popular.
As for Deepseek, it refrains from political discussion in general.
I don’t think Mao was a great man in the Thomas Carlyle sense, I think he was very powerful man who was at some point an absolute leader. I guess we just disagree on that point which is fine. Also when was Mao ousted exactly and where can I read about this because everything I have read Mao remained the chairman until his death. Deep seek has no problems talking talking about politics it doesn’t however want to talk about any Chinese politicians. I just tested it out.
What is an “absolute leader” if his policies were not accepted absolutely and his power was systematically weakened later in life? Mao held many positions throughout his life in the CPC, and was Chairman of the CPC until death, but more major positions like Premier were held by other figures, and his influence over the party waned as time went on within the positions he did retain. For instance, he stepped down as President in 1959.
He retained massive influence, but his influence was greater earlier on, and the influence of others rose as time went on. The CPC’s current evaluation of Mao is along the lines of “70% good, 30% bad.” They also, however, refuse to take the road of Kruschev with Stalin, which ended up contributing to the destruction of the Soviet Union.
I think there was a point when if Mao said jump you asked how high. I’m sure this wasn’t the case at all times and if you can give me some cool reading suggestions I’ll gladly check it out. I just think that sadly power dynamics like this can develop in political organisations no matter what ideology the members hold. If you really want to know my crazy beliefs it’s that hyper intelligence may not be an evolutionary beneficial trait, but who knows maybe I’m wrong maybe humanity will survive the complete destruction of earths ecosystems and global heating of 3-4 degrees which I think we will easily hit by 2100.
People respected Mao greatly due to his effectiveness and competence as a leader. That’s why he retained the positions he did until the very end, and why the Cultural Revolution was carried out. People listened to him because they trusted him and through experience knew he was competent. He wasn’t unopposed, nor was he the only leader, there were many other positions that held more direct influence.
As for climate change, it’s certainly happening, but the degree to which we can mitigate the most disastrous effects is rising due to countries like the PRC making it a top priority to combat.
Let’s see the whole carbon balance of the earth is changing instead of earth being a carbon sink it’s slowly becoming a carbon pump. We are loosing huge swathes of Forrest methane ice crystals in the artic and Antarctic are starting to thaw. It also turns out there is a whole lot more methane trapped under artic glaciers than we thought and those are all melting. I think the next 8 years are going to show that we hit the 1.5 degree target already, that’s like 70 years ahead of schedule. At some point we are going to try geoengineering whether we like it or not. I do agree that the PRC definitely takes climate change seriously but there are still more radical policy solutions that they should consider like not engaging in commercial fishing for 10-20 years if we still want to have any fish in the ocean.
Oh yeah Mao was definitely opposed people plotted against him all the time. Shit like that happens in every single political party. I’m an extremely pessimistic and cynical person, communism doesn’t get a pass from me. I’d still rather live in a country that took climate change and economic development with an eye on trying to help the poorest in society as seriously as China does, but I definitely appreciate the information freedom I get in the west even though that shit is slowly being eroded as well. What’s that old joke again? Under communism you can make fun of your boss but not the politicians, under capitalism you can make fun of the politicians but not your boss. I don’t think China is the dystopian hell that a bunch of libs and conservatives think it is, but like any place it could be a whole lot better. I’m saving up money and I’m going to sign up for Chinese lessons at the Confucius institute here and hopefully I can learn a little bit and one day visit China and then I can talk to some people and see what it’s like for myself and not just rely on images and information other people produced. I also want to try learn more Spanish so I can check out Cuba but I find it very difficult to concentrate and learn now a days.
He was not the one who signed arrest orders or ran trials though, a lot of different people were involved in that. You can’t blame Mao as an individual for stuff that other people did. You can’t run an entire state with just one person.
Nobody in the 60s knew about the importance of sparrows in agriculture. Not even in the West. I think it’s easy to say “oh well duh of course don’t kill the sparrows” but who here among us is an actual farmer? Who here knew that sparrows ate more bugs than grain before it was told to them? I can barely grow a plant, I have no room to judge others when it comes to growing food.
I’m an adult in Europe and I find Mao’s writing to be both relevant and applicable. But there is Mao the general and Mao the chairman. By the end of his life he was definitely saying some stuff that I don’t think even he believed in. But theory is an all encompassing body, and that is true in all fields. One couldn’t read one physics paper about gravity and then say “now I know how to launch a rocket to the moon”. I opened up my copy of the red book randomly and here’s one:
“Take the ideas of the masses and concentrate them, then go to the masses, persevere in the ideas and carry them through, so as to form correct ideas and leadership – such is the basic method of leadership”
It makes perfect sense to me, but that’s also because I have the associated baggage to understand what he means there and how that fits in not only to more of Mao’s writings but also in regards to other figures, the ‘best practices’ if you will of organizing.
The deepseek devs want it to be mainly used for math, coding, and other STEM applications for lack of a better word. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact personally I think people should stop using LLMs as oracles so much and focus them on tasks instead. Deepseek produces great results (and all for free with no rate limits) if you give it some code to start with, because it needs proper framing of the project to avoid trying to overdo it. I usually start with chatGPT, have it do the first working version of the code, and then switch it to deepseek to finish it, and it works almost perfect on the first try.
I’m a farmer and in my country people use fireworks to scare sparrows away to this day, some even shoot them.
I just recently learned that Methyl anthranilate, the artificial grape flavoring, also repels birds and is used heavily by the agro industry nowadays. I imagine because of all the other products they also use they don’t need the birds around anymore.
You can also use old cd-roms tied to a long-ish string btw, the sparkling makes birds stay away.
Meh environmentalists were dismissed and often persecuted in communist countries and generally not taken seriously, sorry I’m not giving them a pass here. Modern China is much better though. Even if Mao didn’t sign all the arrest warrants and didn’t know what’s going on that doesn’t really absolve him in my eyes.
It’s cool that you find Mao relevant I don’t but that’s just my personal opinion and not a dismissal of the man himself. I forgot the dudes name but there is an American who was in China for most of the revolution and he knew Mao and said there was a huge difference between young and old Mao he definitely became more authoritarian and closed minded as he grew older. I read the little red book 14 years ago so I can’t remember much of it,I just remember not finding a lot of it to be applicable to my life at the time, maybe if I read it now it would be different.
I don’t use LLMs and I don’t code so I never use them. I was just more interested in what deep seek had to had to say about Mao and was suprised it wouldn’t even let you broach the subject. If I ask deep seek to tell me about bill Clinton it will give me a response, if I ask it to tell me about Mao or any Chinese leader for that matter which I find interesting.
Anyways out of all the 20th century revolutionaries Fidel was more my guy but that’s just personal preference I guess. IMO what is worst for socialism is socialist parties being unable to allow themselves to be criticised this was sadly often the case in communist parties.
I think that this video gave me the best insight into how China works nowadays, and I suspect things weren’t entirely dissimilar in the past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1TeeIG6Uaw I also looked into things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People’s_Congress and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Congress_of_the_Chinese_Communist_Party after starting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China and it seems that things are pretty complicated. For example: Due to the temporary nature of the plenary sessions, most of NPC’s power is delegated to the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress (NPCSC), which consists of about 170 legislators and meets in continuous bi-monthly sessions, when its parent NPC is not in session.
this is actually a surprisingly good overview from a western publication https://www.noemamag.com/what-the-west-misunderstands-about-power-in-china/
this is also a great resource for understanding how the government is structured https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/who-runs-the-cpc/index.html
Cool thanks I’ll check it out.