…how is it Bluesky’s responsibility to set up an independent server? If they’re the ones that set up the server, how can it be independent?
Doctorow’s complaint only makes sense as a critique of Bluesky itself if he’s talking about the technical aspects of AT Proto. If what he really means is just “nobody has bothered to actually deploy and maintain a fully separate relay instance”, that’s not a problem with Bluesky, it’s an ecosystem issue that he could help by encouraging people to do that work, rather than discouraging them from learning about the platform.
I honestly don’t have much stake in this fight, I’m just frustrated that, as far as I can tell, Doctorow, an intelligent person with a nontrivial following, appears to be spreading misinformation about what is or isn’t possible with Bluesky.
As I mentioned above, I don’t feel strongly about Bluesky winning, I just don’t like misinformation. (I also have other things I care about more that take up what little free time I have for tech stuff already, so I’m not going to undertake something major just to prove a point.) If there’s really a fundamental problem with AT Proto and how it can be used, Doctorow’s post should have made that explicit.
I did find a (more recent) post that goes into detail about what’s lacking, and I’ve edited my original post accordingly.
@BatmanAoD @ProdigalFrog
How many relays are there?
…how is it Bluesky’s responsibility to set up an independent server? If they’re the ones that set up the server, how can it be independent?
Doctorow’s complaint only makes sense as a critique of Bluesky itself if he’s talking about the technical aspects of AT Proto. If what he really means is just “nobody has bothered to actually deploy and maintain a fully separate relay instance”, that’s not a problem with Bluesky, it’s an ecosystem issue that he could help by encouraging people to do that work, rather than discouraging them from learning about the platform.
I honestly don’t have much stake in this fight, I’m just frustrated that, as far as I can tell, Doctorow, an intelligent person with a nontrivial following, appears to be spreading misinformation about what is or isn’t possible with Bluesky.
@BatmanAoD
If there aren’t relays, then there is a reason there aren’t relays.
If you feel strongly that you’re right about this, then perhaps you should invest in standing up a public relay to prove your point.
the reason there arent relays is that theyre expensive to run (150$+ a month, if you rent, and the cost seems to scale linearily with the amount of users on the network), i saw a blog about someone who hosted one briefly (https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/entries/Notes on Running a Full-Network atproto Relay (July 2024), and it isnt even that hard to setup, it’s mostly just the cost.
Also, relay’s aren’t technically needed, you could make an appview that pulls from pds’s directly.
As I mentioned above, I don’t feel strongly about Bluesky winning, I just don’t like misinformation. (I also have other things I care about more that take up what little free time I have for tech stuff already, so I’m not going to undertake something major just to prove a point.) If there’s really a fundamental problem with AT Proto and how it can be used, Doctorow’s post should have made that explicit.
I did find a (more recent) post that goes into detail about what’s lacking, and I’ve edited my original post accordingly.
It is kind of weird thay it hasn’t been done yet, but in that thread they posted it sounded like it’s totally possible at the moment.