What even becomes of us now? What recourse do we have?
What’s going to happen to us?
Are we going to die?
It’s gone a bit viral on Mastodon but if you plan to leave the US, which is entirely reasonable given the circumstances, do not bother trying to claim asylum. No other country that is safe for trans people or queer folks in general considers the US unsafe and your application will be automatically denied and given the international power the US holds, this probably won’t change even in the most dire circumstances.
Instead go for a normal travel or work visa, prolong it as long as you can and try to find friends that will help and hide you in case it expires.
Are there no places where they can hide? Like being hidden by more trusted people. In WW2 we had that too with persecuted people hiding, but yeah.
My unfortunate guess is asylum isn’t going to be an option unless Trump tries to go full Nazi with camps and such… And at that point it might be too late for asylum
Not the outcome any of us wanted. Take a breath. Long term, keep in touch with people who can help, you’re only as safe as your network is wide. If trouble starts looking like it’s coming your way, you can stay and fight if desired, or start taking with your network for escape planning.
I’m trying to be an ally to others the best I can through all the bullshit coming our way.
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Personally, I’m going back to pretending to be cis for at least the next 4 years. And I was just about to start everything. So I’m in a pretty dark place at the moment
I’m so sorry. But on the one hand, if you haven’t started anything yet, that’ll be less of a paper trail for you. I’ve been on hrt for a year, and I can only imagine they’ll try and ban the drugs entirely. I haven’t changed my name, but I have changed my gender marker. You’re losing time, time you’ll sadly never get back, but in my case, I will lose time, my meds, all the progress I’ve made. I… don’t know how to deal with this.
I literally just talked to a doctor about starting HRT yesterday, confident in a Harris win. I feel like such a fool. I haven’t actually started, just talked about it. My wife and I agree that waiting at least until this time next year is wise, depending on how bad things get.
The shitty part is feeling like I’m betraying all my trans brothers and sisters out there who can’t just put on cis-face, since there are medical records and public posts identifying them as not cis-normative, and I’m just going to hide. I don’t want to put my family in danger, but I also can’t stomach doing nothing as my people are also at risk.
Your life comes first every time. Do what you have to do to be safe. We love you and no one is upset at you for hiding for your own safety.
Don’t put if off is my advice. Imagine putting it off last Trump election and having so many years of dysphoria. I had friends who held off for years and they regretted it.
Hey, cis normative passing trans person here (in my case my long time partner has a phenotype preference and I chose him rather than physical transition) you are not betraying anybody. It is a hard road any of us walk and your decision, whatever it’s reason, is valid. We are going to need solidarity like never before and that doesn’t mean pointing fingers at ourselves or others and lamenting that our sacrifices don’t look the same. It means being kind to ourselves too. We are all going to need each other.
Same here, I have a great wife who supports me, and I was basing my transition on the results of this election. Feels horrible
Get a gun, learn to shoot. It is a matter of controlling your nerves and breathing. Squeeze, don’t pull the trigger. With a rifle, pace your controlled breathing and fire on the repeating high points of your breath. Take out all the Nazis you can if they come knocking.
Jesus fucking Christ… Is this the reality people in the US are living? I can’t comprehend the environment that would lead to someone giving this advice.
Yes it’s a reality and their advice is honestly solid. Here’s some maps/statistics showing gun violence in the US in 2024 from the gun violence archives.. If you look at their dropdown menu, there’s a tab specifically for seeing just the last 72 hours that is currently 10 pages long. If you’re looking for reasoning on how that environment comes to be, you might have a read of Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler.. You can find free pdf versions with a quick internet search. There’s also a second book called Parable of the Talents.
Thanks for an honest and informative reply.
I guess I’m lucky in that I’m not particularly tied down anywhere. If I found myself in that situation, I’d just leave. A visa to a more developed, civilised country like Thailand or Chile isn’t that hard to get, right?
Or is leaving equivalent to ‘letting them win’?
Leaving being “letting them win” is something only the most privileged believe. It doesn’t matter, your life comes first.
Read parable of the sower and talents by Octavia butler like 2 months ago. Can’t believe we might end up like that
when half the population wants you dead, this is the type of thing that happens
“Shoot through the fake news”
They’ve been going at stochastic terrorism for a while now, so no if I was trans or black or a woman or gay or Mexican or Haitian I would absolutely put a 1911 on my belt cause the intent to harm has already been declared.
I often have to mask even the slight “gay” tinge out of my voice where I live because even that would draw scrutiny, I have absolutely no doubts that active conservative mercenaries would have it out for us in this godless state. As horrible as it is already, it will only get worse from here, and many are preparing to at least protect their own lives no matter what.
The entire US government has just been handed over to open fascists that state that they want to erase LGBTQ+ and non-christian people from the country. The US system wasn’t parliamentary, where there can be snap elections, etc. The president nominates candidates for lifetime appointments to the courts. The legislature confirms them.
Even if the fascists don’t do what they say they want to, the courts are gone for at least a generation. They are now there to rubber stamp anything that a theofascist wants. The US Supreme Court has already signaled that they may take up the right to marry people of different ethnic backgrounds and have already decided that a president is a king.
So, yeah. The most optimistic scenarios in the US are ones where trans people, LGBTQ+, and ethnic minorities are oppressed, and the people have no political power as the courts will just overrule any outcome that they don’t want.
Things are going to get ugly, likely very quickly.
Wow. Yep, time to leave, people.
You know full well this is bullshit advice. I can’t murder someone and most people can’t do it, let alone flee and evade a militarized force with an ungodly budget.
They’re saying this to get you to be able to protect yourself against civilian-led acts of violence. The danger doesn’t just come from the trump gov, but also its electorate.
If you think you’ll have to fight the government itself, you either need to join a vast armed resistance movement, or flee
^ this. It’s not actual militias to worry about, it’s the KKK, the lynch mobs, the drunken parties that get out of hand, the Jan 6 rioters
The danger is what becomes considered “acceptable”.
Fuck this is going to be a miserable decade+… I already thought i was a bit paranoid, I really didn’t need to feed it.
Self-defense is not “murder.”
Tell that to my conscience. It probably wouldn’t accept that.
I mean, if you’d rather be suicidally pacifistic that’s up to you, but the undeniable fact is that it’s not exactly a great individual strategy.
I think the intended thought isn’t necessarily “winning” but rather, “if you’re going down, go down swinging”. I’m not sure that I’m that pessimistic but, I’m certainly not optimistic at the moment.
It’s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
hoooly shit that’s one hell of a quote! I can’t even convey my emotions about how sadly real it is.
I’ve been trans for a long time in a conservative area. Longer than most posters on here have been alive. Pepper spray has been far better in my experience. It’s tiny, lightweight, and can be brought into pretty much any building (except those with metal detectors). It’s effective at stopping people in their tracks and giving you a chance to get away. Guns are just a hassle in comparison, especially in warmer months. Ain’t nowhere to hide a Glock in a bikini. (I’m a transguy but you get the gist.)
I got spayed by the stuff once while riding on a bike trail. It was a mentally off homeless person that was looking for conflict with any perceived enemy and I guess I fit the bill in a club kit on a nice looking road bike. I mean, no one can tell that the bike is a crashed and salvaged demo bike I was given as a perk of working in a bike shop for peanut shells and promises or that I'm just doing a quite miserable physical therapy routine and spend most of my day lying in a bed.
Anyways, I don’t know what the state of the pepper spay was, like how old or brand, etc. There’s no doubt that it was tossed by someone that this person managed to find.
While I am somewhat limited on a bike and certainly not in race shape anymore, I was an amateur racer in the past. I’ve ridden most days since 2009. The longest stretch I’ve ever done without riding is 8 weeks due to the crash that broke my neck, back, and totaled 2 SUV’s. I still ride quite hard and can hold 20+ MPH and higher. I generally push right up against subanaerobic levels when I ride. This was the state I was in when I was sprayed right in the face at close range of less than 3 feet. I was traveling at 15-20 MPH at the time.
I could tell something was not right, but I had no idea exactly what I had been sprayed with. My sunglasses prevented direct eye exposure. I was soaking with sweat and it was all around my glasses. I immediately stopped hard and was around 20 feet away from the guy that was just standing there smiling and staring. I was in hard cycling shoes and Shimano road cleats, so I’m obviously not in shape to chase anyone down or fight with those on. However, upon stopping, it became clear to both of us that there was no immediate effect, and I might just have the option to beat the hell out of this punk. The dude panicked and darted into the cover of an overgrown riverbank.
From there I still rode about a half mile to a police station. By the time I got there, the effects started getting bad enough for me to begin to have trouble seeing and breathing at full lung capacity. It was annoying and a very irritating nuisance. However, I am conditioned for pain tolerance both naturally, (racing as a roadie is all about masochistic pain), and chronic spinal issues for over a decade. I will say, that pepper spray, which it clearly was after it took effect, barely phased me. I had to stop and try to wipe and rinse most of it off my face. I couldn’t get it off my jersey, and that was irritating over my skin. I couldn’t wash all of it off of my face either. It was getting in my eyes from sweat. I spent about 30 minutes stopped washing and wiping the crap off as best I could. Still, I soft pedaled around 8 miles back home from there. I could have easily and quickly gotten a ride home if I had called, but I wear my “it could be worse” worst days as a badge of honor.
My real point is that, if anyone pepper sprayed me personally, and if the effects were anything like in this instance, it would do little to stop me.
I spent awhile working in heavy industry with some of the most petty racist and stupid men I’ve ever put up with; exactly the type of person that is very dangerous to the LGBTQ community. I’m not particularly handsome but in that group I’m the pretty boy, but accepted mostly by force because I’m physically a large commanding build of a guy. My pain tolerance and toughness pale in comparison to that group. Working around those guys in my early twenties had a big impact on my tough character, but I’m only cosplaying next to some of the stuff I’ve seen. There are a few guys in that group that a couple of bullets are unlikely to stop unless they clip some vital wiring – of which there is very little.
I hate the idea of telling anyone to get a gun or have a last stand mentality for some sense of security. I hate telling someone that feels insecure to acquire something that is equally dangerous to themselves, (projecting my own psychology and chronic situation – not presuming, accusing, or insinuating). I just mentally abstract to the thought of the Gestapo taking people away in Nazi Germany. I’d rather die in a gun fight than get herded into a chamber. In the present, I don’t think it will come to that, especially here in California, but I want to go on my terms under such a circumstance. No one has a right to take your life or judge anyone else. I believe in the Hippocratic oath’s “First, do no harm” and by extension, ‘live and let live’. Anyone violating this unalienable right deserves what they get, even at the hands of a guerilla insurgency of one.
Anyways, I would be very careful about choosing pepper spray and relying upon it. I’m sure there is variance in quality and chemistry. Still I would be very very aware of only using it in a situation where the primary issue is their pursuit of me after fleeing. In this limited capacity, I can see pepper spray as truly effective. I would not be able to chase someone at full tilt for very long after being sprayed. I would have been able to chase for 5-10 minutes before I was completely unable in my one instance of experience. If they were within a short distance or arms reach when I got sprayed, all bets are off. It then becomes rage then rage inducing spray. I’m not trying to scare or make things worse. Hopefully someone that has experienced it directly in an outdoor blind situation where I did not expect pepper spray or even know that it was pepper spray, is a helpful perspective. I can describe almost any situation like this in extensive detail and try to give grounding context as much as I can. Hopefully this gives a useful perspective. That is my reason for all the bla bla bla, plus I just care. Stay safe, seriously.
Tldr?
NP. Be well, stay safe.
I found some usefull resources on another trans-community. I put the link here:
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/18287223
Be brave, stay safe. This is not the end!
Steel your heart friend, it’s going to get hard. I’m going to make an active effort to be in politics now to help sway some local folk, but it’s going to be hard.
Stock up on HRT as much as you can. If possible, move to an area where your neighbors are staunch allies.
Yall are more than welcome to by my neighbor… glad you know their are allies around!
I’ll be dropping the femme expressions I used to love. It’s not safe, and now I have to “man up” and protect my family as best I can. Fascism is not a working system, and a lot of very good and vulnerable people are going to get targeted by bigots every time our undemocratic assholes need to distract from their failures.
The next four years are going to be hell, and I have no idea what to do.
I’m so sad for all of you in America right now. Stay strong.
There is another election in 2026 which is an opportunity to break up the Republican super majority and some state government control.
We can try to get more involved in the political process, but beyond that there is very little left to do. We are just going to have to wait and see if it’s as bad as we’ve all feared.
It’s more important now than ever that we take care of ourselves and each other. Together we stand, divided we fall.
I’m sorry, but this is it for free and fair elections. Even if we won, they’ll just override democracy because they can. I really wish I could say anything else, but liberalism is dead.
Maybe. It’s hard to say how much of Trump’s rhetoric and “agenda” is to rile up his supporters and how much are promises he intends to (and is able to) carry out.
Going off of his last presidency, we’re uber-fucked. He did irreparable damage to world peace, economic equality, and institutional stability. The only reason he didn’t do more harm was neocon libs holding him back from doing the dumbest shit. Those people have been systematically purged over the last 4 years.
His government will be more incompetent, but more unhinged. The economy will be awful for all but the very rich, while even those people will lose access to much of their safety. The global economy will crash and millions will die from the looming wars he fanned the flames of in his first term.
You’re in denial. I was last time, but I’m not now. He’s a fascist who cares less about his country than Hitler. There’s no outside force coming to stop the fascist USA. We can only wait for Trump to die before taking back our country. The Republicans are beatable after he’s gone, but not before. Trump will burn the world before he’ll give up power.
I’m not in denial, I’m scared shitless and heartbroken. You’re probably right. That’s probably it for American democracy and any hope trans people have of finding safety and acceptance in American Society in our lifetimes. But it hasn’t happened yet.
We’ve already survived a Trump presidency once, we’ll do it again, life’s just going to suck more than it already has. I can’t tell you how to live your apocalypse, I intend to get back in shape, see what parts of my life can be further downsized, and focus on growing my social support network to include as many other women, people of color, and queer folks as I can befriend.
I understand. I just don’t want people to have false expectations that let them down in the end. I do think there is hope for our acceptance one day, but not for a long time.
Eh, if we’re screwed either way, what’s the harm in a comforting lie?
We’re gonna suffer either way, but by accepting reality, we can fight for our own survival. Your life and existence is worth fighting for. What do you have to lose?
Just to be forward, I’m not trans.
This election isn’t the end. Civilians probably aren’t going to come after you or anything. You quite possibly will lose access to some forms of Healthcare you are allowed to enjoy now, which is pretty fucked up. You’ll also likely be discriminated against in government paperwork, like having to put your birth sex on your drivers license and that sort of thing.
In the end, you’ll probably live. Keep your friends and community close and work to make things as good for each other as you can. Find alternative forms of Healthcare if you need to and can. Keep some hope alive that we can come out of this stronger and more united and turn the tables in two years, or at most four. Don’t give up. Don’t let them just have a victory. Join local mutual aid groups and whatever else you can do. Keep fighting.
Remember, as bad as this is, this isn’t the first time trans people have been discriminated against. Remember those who came before you and fought to improve things to get to the not perfect but livable status-quo we temporarily had. Don’t take it for granted. We can get back to that point again and further.
This is the first time trans people have been one of the pillars of a winning candidates platform. They spent $215 million on anti trans ads specifically, or 40% of their entire marketing budget. You don’t invest that amount of resources into dehumanizing a minority without having dire intentions. Trans people have been discriminated against before, but not like this.
For government organizations and websites they will defund resources, delete published data, and forbid terminology from being mentioned. Funding for research programs will be cut.
For social media websites they may try isolate groups by forbidding topics and moderation.
There will disturbing press announcements every few days. If there is no public outrage they will keep taking it further.
Markets will get further deregulation, maybe some scheme to tank it and issue another stimulus followed by inflation.
States and cities with strong protections in place will push back. Other places will see people emboldened by their rhetoric to take it out on others.
I’m pretty sure Canada will accept alot you with open arms.
Are you familiar with Tor? The darknet may be a place you could start looking for hrt
Also, I’d just like to mention, Tor is pretty easy to use. You can literally download it like you can any other app on your phone.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.torproject.torbrowser
There are probably other ways to use it that are more private, but I don’t want folks to get bogged down and overwhelmed and not use it. For real, go download the app and try it. It’s easy peesy. Just go to any website in it and see how it works.
This is right info
Maybe move to Canada?, I’m sure you will be more than happy there
Were it only that easy.
