Google: “Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn’t verified. We are designing this flow specifically to resist coercion, ensuring that users aren’t tricked into bypassing these safety checks while under pressure from a scammer. It will also include clear warnings to ensure users fully understand the risks involved, but ultimately, it puts the choice in their hands.”
Thank god. I would’ve ditched Android for good if this went through, and while it sounds like it would be annoying for casual users to enable unverified apps, at least we can still install them.
So I just read what they are going to do and this article is just clickbait. Basically they still want you to dox yourself but it’ll still work like iOS Test Pilot. Google is still full of shit and lies but hey at least you don’t have to pay them money until enough users download your app if you want more.
So it’ll basically still kill apps like F-Droid or you downloading an app from the internet to run on your phone. You’ll basically have to signup to install third party apps on your device per app in general and alot of the convenience and developer community will still just leave android as a whole.
All in all really bad decision on Google’s part while also extending this to things like fireOS or whatever the fuck the Quest 2 and 3 will run as a skin of android. This will make sure they would be forever stuck on older versions of android; lest they have to contend with the new upcoming android features that will enforce this that will be baked into the operating system next year. Even without Google Play Services like I read.
Personally I don’t think developers should have to sign up to Google and provide ID cards to basically have a limited amount of users use their specific app outside the app store.
Google obviously is feeling threatened by better apps that more people are using on platforms like F-Droid compared the outright subscription based shitware and adware on the playstore. Which is why they are doing this. But like platforms before like inturn Symbian. I personally think it’ll fuck them over so hard that’ll they’ll never recover while China or whomever else makes a new platform for you to run android apps on for a time before going all proprietary fucked up Linux. Just like Android again.
They’ll probably also release a new API to allow apps to check if user have enabled sideloading. Then overzealous apps like fucking mcdonalds will throw a hissy fit about it and refuse to work unless you turn it off. Also your bank too, just to really make it as hard as possible to include sideloaded apps. Sideloading will remain available, but so painful, most people just give up.
Just recently mcdonalds app stopped working when installed in a secondary profile. Long history of them trying to detect root hiding methods too. Fuck them. Once this sideload block thing arrives, mcdonalds would be the first to block it.
You know it’s kinda funny that I can’t even run the MC Donalds app without doing some fuckery. But my banking app will throw a hissy fit if I try to sign into my account without a rooted or custom ROMed phone because that’s how they know it’s me apparently. Also shame that my banking app stopped supporting Android 8.0 a few years back. I miss my LG V20.
Google also extending this to things like fireOS
it would not, because fireos was based on ancient versions of android like android 11 or earlier, and the block is enforced via google play services which isn’t present on there.
but new fireos doesn’t run android apps at all. New devices temporarily run android apps on a VM hosted on AWS servers and then stream the video, but only if those apps are distributed on the amazon appstore, and it’s a stopgap until the devs make their apps compatible with the new OS.
And old fireos devices will start to gradually uninstall “dangerous” sideloaded apks
Good news! But it doesn’t change the fact that Google tried to do this in the first place.
For now. You just wait. Evil corp is gonna evil corp it all up.
I miss the days when their slogan was “Don’t be evil”
Yeah, Google used to be the “Cool” company back then. I used to root for them.
Straight from the playbook. Announce something terrible, then back off with something bad. Everyone calls it a win.
See: Wizards if the Coast, Unity
And 5 years they’ll try it again.
Do terrible thing A to test the sentiment, probe the reaction, backpedal a bit, admit caveats and facilitate pre-planned option B, try again after a few days and gocus on it died down.
At one point we’ll need diff monitoring on the TOC and all other legal imprints :|
Rockstar too
No freaking way this was because of “feedback”. This was because the European Commission will keep escalating their fines if Google keeps at it with the monopoly bullshit.
The EU is just a bit behind being maliciously lobbied to death (eyeroll).
(See Digital Omnibus Act)Quite some time ago, the messaging I was getting from Microsoft was that Windows 10 security updates were going to end this year. I didn’t really keep up with the news on that front, but I did notice that there was some kind of law suit in the EU that from what I recall basically came down to the fact that MS would have to continue to provide security updates to Win 10 free of charge for EU users.
Literally within the last week, a buddy of mine asked me to look at his computer and see if I could upgrade it to Win 10. I could not, as it doesn’t have a supported processor. But what I noticed is that MS now offers the option to extend security updates until 2026 with the click of a button.
So, thanks EU folks! Already knew ya’ll were awesome, but I assume this change of heart from Microsoft was a result of that suit. I appreciate it.
Google: "Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn’t verified.
And we will NEVER trust you again because we know you’ll retry this next year or so in a few smaller steps that all have cutesy innocent names that are supposed to lull us in a false sense of security
Fuck Google, stop paying them for anything, stop using their services wherever possible.
Wait, so Google listened to our feedback, and we’re still mad? What would a positive outcome have looked like?
Once user trust is burned it’s not coming back.
There are no positive outcomes available now - it’s time to abandon Google.
Linux phones arriving sooner? Hopefully that’s the silver lining.
Because no one believes that Google (Evil Corp) did this to deteer scammers, as they claim their reasoning was. If that was the case, they would take a much better care about the virus apps that gets released on Play Store, or the phishing ads that gets served through games.
This was always about monopoly.
I genuinely believe that it was motivated by the desire to deter scammers. What leads you to believe it’s not? There are many gullible people out there who will follow, precisely as you pointed out, phishing links that encourage them to sideload an unverified app.
No system is perfect, and I also believe that Google Play does a fair job of removing malicious apps.
I’m sorry to try to bring some nuance into this thread as I know that discourse isn’t welcome on Lemmy, but I’m just trying to wrap my head around the outrage. Providing a way to let experienced users continue to sideload apps while safeguarding the more gullible seems like a good idea and I still genuinely don’t understand what your preferred solution would be.
I understand that thoughtprocess, I really do because I’ve thought the same at one point. Most who are angry and frustrated at Google have.
To explain it a bit, it’s pretty much what I said before. If it really were to deteer scammers, they would implement better security and safety in their Play Store first. There’s also ways they could block phishing attempts through there, but instead they use a bulldozer to hammer a small nail to a wall when a hammer would do just fine. I’m sure if you do a search for articles there’ll be news covering this, and surely son statistic if you are more curious on numbers.
What they need is better checks in the very first step, because locking down sideloading won’t fix their inherently flawed Play store security and vetting. It’s like putting a patch of glue on a crack in the wall, but right next to it there’s already a gaping hole.
I think it was fairly obvious that the move was going to piss people off, they just misjudged to what extent. Modern business strategy is to claim to listen to customer feedback and just quietly plan to implement it anyway, just do it more subtly, more quietly, and more slowly.
I would understand the outrage if Google didn’t stick to their word, but unless I’ve missed something, they’ve not, have they? Are we now protesting that they reversed their decision? Wasn’t this what we wanted?
Are we now protesting that they reversed their decision?
…no? I’m not really protesting so much as offering what I think the other person is trying to say. I think they are saying that Google crossed a line, and walking it back doesn’t change that fact.
In my opinion, Google has crossed countless lines over the last 5-10 years. I’m looking for alternatives that meet my own needs. That search has accelerated over the last few years, when the things Google has done have been most egregious. This isn’t a protest. This is disillusionment. I’m abandoning ship.
Don’t consider this a win, guys, this is more of an ‘Oh shit, we’re screwed if we follow through with this right now’ moment, there’s nothing stopping them from walking this back at a later, less turbulent date when no one’s paying attention, and locking Android down anyways, as this directly reminds me of the situation which caused WEI to be scrapped.
Also, the EU pushing Chat Control through the back door might embolden Google to both try an Android lockdown just like was going to roll out before, and try WEI again, and get both actually pushed through somehow.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if MS were emboldened to try to lock down PCs… Again…
I mean, sure, but there was never anything stopping them from doing this in the first place except public pressure. Large companies changing tracks due to public demand is a good thing, and definitely a win.
I think its better to simply realize that a win doesn’t mean the fight is over. It’s okay to be happy about a success. Just don’t let up on the pressure.
It’s still worse than before. Really need to break mobile away from Google and Apple. Preferably as close to standard Linux as possible
AOSP makes a lot more sense to me. We just need to adopt Graphene or Lineage en masse and start contributing to support more devices, grow that out into a real alternative with support for the already existing android app ecosystem, and real alternatives to Google Play services
Aosp makes more sense as a short term strategy, but google is making developing graphene harder, linux mobile is a much better long term strategy
It doesn’t matter, you fork into something else entirely. It’s a hell of a lot easier to leverage the android ecosystems in a diverging fork than it is to build a whole new niche platform
The second I hear about a Linux mobile operating system that has even decent screen reader support, I will be switching.
Magnification in Linux desktops in particular has not been that difficult, but screen readers are a whole different can of worms.
I figure Linux Mobile will be able to do magnification properly as they do it fine on desktop and they can just copy the gestures from Android if nothing else.
Graphene doesn’t fix the problem because it’s only available on Pixel devices
Try reading what I said
Not for long. They’re going to start working with their own OEM.
What about Play Integrity / Safetynet?
Yeah when are Linux phones going to be compatible
It’s not sideloading, it’s installing. Stop giving into this idea that installing other apps is somehow bypassing normal methods!
I heard that if you don’t get your groceries via Walmart+ delivery, then it’s smuggling.
Great analogy
Transporting?
Google: “Based on this feedback and our ongoing conversations with the community, we are building a new advanced flow that allows experienced users to accept the risks of installing software that isn’t verified.
I’ve been side loading apks since I bought my first Android phones and am much more concerned about malware “safe” apps from Google’s Play store. Google’s quality control is shit.
Yes. I wonder how many people unknowingly updated Simple Mobile Tools apps after the new owner’s buy-in.
The number of apps that I’ve had to unistall because they got quietly sold and turned into malware is alarming.
Quality control is not the words. They are unethical garbage pieces of shit who make the world a worse place. These big companies buy smaller ones just so they have the good devs and no competition. Then they make everything in the market insufferable as fuck.
We are designing this flow specifically to resist coercion, ensuring that users aren’t tricked into bypassing these safety checks while under pressure from a scammer.
Translation: if they want scamware, it better be from Google Play, where Google gets a 30% cut. On top of the cut they got for the phishing link in Google Ads.
And if anything thinks I’m being hyperbolic, go on Google Play and search for pretty much anything. Or turn off your adblocker.
Helped a disabled pensioner recently with her phone that kept plaging loud obnoxious ads at her even while locked.
She had 4 different “virus scanners” that were all fake adware.
The fee is 15% below the first $1M of revenue and it should go without saying that app developers only pay that fee for paid apps, in-app purchases or digital subscriptions. It’s very unlikely that a scam app would be paid, or work off a subscription, and if those phishing ads are doing their conversions, you’ll never see the user again.
I doubt Google’s making more than a few cents off each of these scam apps.
Google gets a cut from the Google Ads click, which takes the user directly to the Play Store (or, if on desktop, the Chrome extension store).
If it’s some free shovelware app, they get a cut from the ads spammed onto the user’s screen. If it’s a sham subscription app, they get a cut of that. I see this a lot test clicking ads these days.
If its legit phishing, that’s a fair point; they don’t get a direct cut of the scam, other than the attention it drives towards their app stores and the data they collect for the user’s profile. But the point I’m trying to make is that it’s incredibly hypocritical to paint 3rd party apps (and indeed any competing app store) as a danger when they do such a poor job policing their own store. They may have a point, but it doesn’t really tackle scamware unless they change their moderation habits.
Eh, I’m probably gonna ditch that smartphone thing anyways, at least for a while. Android becoming a closed-off garden was the last straw and I was kinda looking forward trying to go without a phone to test if I can adapt. I started leaving the house without my phone more and more and I kinda like it.
Sure, it’s fun and convenient to have the Internet in my pocket. Heck, it’s even required in some cases, but this digital mess we are currently in is too much for me. I remember how I was looking forward having one back then; I was really looking forward having acces to the Interney wherever I was, but nowadays I kinda miss being less conected from all the bullshit especially when outside.
I guess I could get a linuxphone one day if I miss having a phone (if I somehow manage to completely remove the smartphone from my life in the first place).
Thank god. I would’ve ditched Android for good if this went through, and while it sounds like it would be annoying for casual users to enable unverified apps, at least we can still install them.
You would have ditched Android for ios if it were implemented?
Not hardly. I’ve been looking for a reason to support Linux phones, and that would just have been the thing to do it.
At least the apple ecosystem all works. Androids full of shit that will never be fixed. Looking at Google cast in particular. There have been many others too.
Ive been using Android for more than a decade, fwiw
I would not have done so, but I think there’s a reasonable argument that if Apple and Google’s mobile platforms are indistinguishable in terms of user freedom and Google is going to try to be Apple, ya may as well just go with the better Apple
That’s not good enough. They’re just going to keep lightly pushing against the bad publicity until everything not controlled by Google on your phone goes away.
We need an alternative made without googles shitty hands in the mix. This forced duopoly between Apple and Google sucks. No phone competition in the US also sucks. Overpriced Samsung or a Google phone, while companies Like Red Magic have fan and liquid cooled phones with huge batteries, more ram, and more storage, for less than a grand being sold around the rest of the world outside the US.
Stop it. You’re reminding me why I want to move my family out of the US. Its not just phones, everything is a facade here.
Oneplus had great success but then enshittified. Raised prices to match Samsung and Google, outsourced support to some place that didn’t sound like they were even in the same dimension as any English speakers and took away their ability to help customers even by accident and finally quality of their phones went to shit.
They could’ve sucked the Chinese government subsidy tit for another few years and would’ve established themselves as legit competition, but that would only delay inevitable enshittification by a few years.
They’re a descent phone right now with their OnePlus 15. Huge battery, good and bright screen, top of the line processing and 16GB of the fastest ram you can get in a phone, and less than $1,000.
My issues with it are that their potential unlocking and rooting is a bit up in the air, and that they only offer up to a 512GB with no SD card.
I’d buy a damned Red Magic 11 pro if they didn’t block root and supported band 71.
Nah, I’m not doing back to OP. I hate to say it, but If you’re going to use android, nothing beats pixels. Not even close.
If GrapheneOS manages to actually work with a decent hardware maker to get a phone to the market, I’ll get that next, but only if Android auto and banking apps work. Phone’s useless to me without those.
Only reason I’d give those up is if I can get another Linux phone as polished as Nokia N9. Still the best phone I’ve ever owned.
Not a popular opinion, but if those two options are unavailable, I’d rather switch to iPhone than use a non pixel android.
It’s looking like pixel may be planning on locking down root access as well, soon. Really, pixel has never done anything very great. No SD card, ok, screen, ok apu, pretty good cameras, meh battery, and meh storage and ram. Never anything special. Sony phones had potential but they’re always priced high and their software support sucks. I wish LG had kept making phones
I completely agree, but despite OP or Samsung looking better on paper, overall experience is just so much smoother. Shit just works. And at some point I began to value that over specs.
Just for some perspective, I’m basing what I’m saying on OP 3T, 5T and 8Pro, Samsung S21 and Pixel 8 pro and currently 9 pro fold.
You chose poorly for Samsung. I’m still holding onto and using my Note 20 ultra. Their last great phone.
We need an alternative made without googles shitty hands in the mix. This forced duopoly between Apple and Google sucks.
That goes for MS and Apple on the desktop too, and allegedly Google is trying to enter that space as well for the umpteenth time.
At least as far as PCs are concerned, they’re still unlocked at the bootloader level, despite MS’ attempts to lock that down, and there’s nothing stopping you from installing Linux or BSD on your PC still. Mobile devices outside a handful which aren’t locked down, unfortunately don’t have that luxury.
Yep. I’m running Linux on all but one of my machines. You at least have the option with most any PC. There’s a very quickly dwindling option to do the same with phones.
deleted by creator
Err, that’s not true on the last fee devices I’ve used, Pixels and a Fairphone. Installing apps from APK files doesn’t require me to enable dev options. In fact trying to install an APK from say Files brings me straight to the permission setting. It’s also per-app. It can be accessed under Settings > Apps > Special app access > Install unknown apps.
That’s not what the phrase “dark pattern” means.
On Samsung it’s: download APK, run it, see the warning, tap “allow third party installations”, flick a switch, tap “install”.
dark pattern
This is not what dark pattern means.
Also, I don’t think enabling developer options is required to install arbitrary APKs.
In some ROMs at least, unknown sources for specific apps is not in the developer options.
That’s not a dark pattern…
that warning was not at all prominent, and as others have said, t does not exist anymore on modern android
