Alright, you did convince me that the Chinese people report strong support to the CCP and report a strong perception of democracy.
What I am still not convinced of however, is that PRC IS democratic.
In my book, for a country to be democratic it needs to have:
Freedom of speech
Freedom of press
Freedom of reunion
Freedom of protest
Universal access to education
Political plurality
Universal suffrage
Universal respect of human right
My opinion today is that, I highly doubt PRC qualifies to any of this points, but I don’t know for sure. If you convince me with credible evidence that PRC is better than, let’s say, France, Germany or Norway, on all these points, then I am ready to move to China with you next year.
Edit: I forgot a few important point on my democratic list of requirements:
Laicity (division of state and religion and tolerance for all religions)
Division of power (Legislative, Justice, Executive, etc, must be help by different institution regulating each other)
First of all, you have a very liberal-minded understanding of democracy. A lot of these values are really only “valid” in as much as they apply to capitalists in the west. For example:
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Press
Both of these only exist in the west as far as they can be abused by those with enough money to buy the media narrative. In China, speech of capitalists and misinformation is cracked down on, but the working class is largely left to speak what they want.
Freedom of reunion (I take to mean freedom of assembly) is partially valid. As China is a socialist country, and the class struggle is very much still alive, creating groups opposed to socialism is cracked down on more. However, there exist many specialty groups, in fact there are 8 political parties other than the CPC that work cooperatively with the CPC when it comes to governing.
Freedom of protest is fine. Protests and public backlash are what caused the CPC to back off on COVID restrictions, even though the CPC was correct. You can’t really aim to overthrow socialism or anything, but protests for example are often supported by the CPC against capitalists.
Education is kept extremely cheap in China. Schools are extremely competitive as well, partially because of how many people there are competing for the top universities, but overall education is extremely affordable. It isn’t free as far as I’m aware, but it isn’t a block for the working class.
Regarding political plurality, there’s a saying in China: “let a hundred flowers bloom, a hundred schools of thought contend.” I recommend this article on Roland Boer’s trip to China.
As for universal respect of human rights, China does quite well, and unlike the countries you listed, it isn’t imperialist. France, Germany, Norway, the west in general, all depend on vast looting and plundering of the global south. China doesn’t, it runs on largely its own production, which is why countries in the global south are flocking to China for construction contracts and to join the Belt and Road Initiative.
Imperialist countries in the west use vast exports of capital to super-exploit international labor for super-profits, that’s where western safety nets come from. Essentially, you can think of the west as capitalists in country form, exploiting those under their domination, while China is aligned with the global south and doesn’t have that private domination of finance capital that enables imperialism in the first place.
I’m not moving to China anytime soon. I can’t speak Mandarin, and I have friends and family where I live. I do organize with communists, though, and would love to bring about socialism in my country.
Edit for your edit:
Religion is protected.
As for “separation of powers,” this circles back to you having a thoroughly liberal understanding of politics. Government should cooperate in a functional society, not work against itself. Capitalist countries rely on this instability of government in order to keep capital on top, but there’s no actual reasoning for it. The churn, the competition, it’s all by design to keep society turned against itself instead of cooperating.
It’s funny to me, maybe not to anyone else. If you would take an advice from a random internet stranger: Try to learn a bit of Mandarin, travel to China, maybe your local communist party can even support you with that. Get a some first hand experience with this country your clearly very passionate about.
I’d love to do so, at least for a bit, but that’s not something I have the time to do at the moment. I’m passionate about upholding AES, and I don’t really understand why you’re acting cagey and smug after posting a wall of gish-gallop and refusing to respond to any of the points raised. It just seems like you’re avoiding responding and trying to hide behind more vague consescension.
Alright, you did convince me that the Chinese people report strong support to the CCP and report a strong perception of democracy. What I am still not convinced of however, is that PRC IS democratic.
In my book, for a country to be democratic it needs to have:
My opinion today is that, I highly doubt PRC qualifies to any of this points, but I don’t know for sure. If you convince me with credible evidence that PRC is better than, let’s say, France, Germany or Norway, on all these points, then I am ready to move to China with you next year.
Edit: I forgot a few important point on my democratic list of requirements:
First of all, you have a very liberal-minded understanding of democracy. A lot of these values are really only “valid” in as much as they apply to capitalists in the west. For example:
Both of these only exist in the west as far as they can be abused by those with enough money to buy the media narrative. In China, speech of capitalists and misinformation is cracked down on, but the working class is largely left to speak what they want.
Freedom of reunion (I take to mean freedom of assembly) is partially valid. As China is a socialist country, and the class struggle is very much still alive, creating groups opposed to socialism is cracked down on more. However, there exist many specialty groups, in fact there are 8 political parties other than the CPC that work cooperatively with the CPC when it comes to governing.
Freedom of protest is fine. Protests and public backlash are what caused the CPC to back off on COVID restrictions, even though the CPC was correct. You can’t really aim to overthrow socialism or anything, but protests for example are often supported by the CPC against capitalists.
Education is kept extremely cheap in China. Schools are extremely competitive as well, partially because of how many people there are competing for the top universities, but overall education is extremely affordable. It isn’t free as far as I’m aware, but it isn’t a block for the working class.
Regarding political plurality, there’s a saying in China: “let a hundred flowers bloom, a hundred schools of thought contend.” I recommend this article on Roland Boer’s trip to China.
As for universal suffrage:
>All citizens of the People’s Republic of China who have reached the age of 18 have the right to vote and stand for election, regardless of ethnic background, race, sex, occupation, family background, religious belief, education level, property status or length of residence. People who have been deprived of their political rights according to law do not have the right to vote and stand for election. One voter has only one vote in each election.
As for universal respect of human rights, China does quite well, and unlike the countries you listed, it isn’t imperialist. France, Germany, Norway, the west in general, all depend on vast looting and plundering of the global south. China doesn’t, it runs on largely its own production, which is why countries in the global south are flocking to China for construction contracts and to join the Belt and Road Initiative.
Imperialist countries in the west use vast exports of capital to super-exploit international labor for super-profits, that’s where western safety nets come from. Essentially, you can think of the west as capitalists in country form, exploiting those under their domination, while China is aligned with the global south and doesn’t have that private domination of finance capital that enables imperialism in the first place.
I’m not moving to China anytime soon. I can’t speak Mandarin, and I have friends and family where I live. I do organize with communists, though, and would love to bring about socialism in my country.
Edit for your edit:
Religion is protected.
As for “separation of powers,” this circles back to you having a thoroughly liberal understanding of politics. Government should cooperate in a functional society, not work against itself. Capitalist countries rely on this instability of government in order to keep capital on top, but there’s no actual reasoning for it. The churn, the competition, it’s all by design to keep society turned against itself instead of cooperating.
Not as well supported by sources as you previous replies, such a shame. But you gave me a good laugh 🤣
In what way is this funny?
It’s funny to me, maybe not to anyone else. If you would take an advice from a random internet stranger: Try to learn a bit of Mandarin, travel to China, maybe your local communist party can even support you with that. Get a some first hand experience with this country your clearly very passionate about.
I’d love to do so, at least for a bit, but that’s not something I have the time to do at the moment. I’m passionate about upholding AES, and I don’t really understand why you’re acting cagey and smug after posting a wall of gish-gallop and refusing to respond to any of the points raised. It just seems like you’re avoiding responding and trying to hide behind more vague consescension.