Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Well, I appreciate the complement, but I do want to point out that the longer you hold onto the idea that we can vote for a better world in a system designed to keep imperialism running for as long as possible, the longer you’ll be walking around with your hands tied doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
Better give the USA back to the British Crown then, dumb-ass.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Unlikely but nice try anyways and your arguments are coherent and civil so I appreciate that. Your argument and debate skills are great too.
My belief is a smaller, more progressive one. Not saying violent revolution is off the table, but I don’t think we’re anywhere near it.
Well, I appreciate the complement, but I do want to point out that the longer you hold onto the idea that we can vote for a better world in a system designed to keep imperialism running for as long as possible, the longer you’ll be walking around with your hands tied doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do.
Here’s an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list if you ever want to start reading theory.
I know a lot about it, thanks.
Given your other responses I’m not sure that’s the case, but you do you.
Loooool. You lying shitheel