Japanese people tend to make a big deal out of the “human touch,” especially when it comes to service, so I can see how companies aren’t jumping on to the hype. We’re also pretty slow to adopt change.
And that’s pretty cool, seems like a culture best suited for modern challenges.
I’ve heard\read there are many racist, paternalist, hierarchical and collectivist traits, but at the same time Japan apparently hasn’t hit those honeypots most of the humanity has.
ugh. “collectivist” is a word coined by western chauvinists. that’s not a real dichotomy. your fucking Abrahamic countries are far more collectivist than us soulless confucianists
Depends on the point in time really. I meant “collectivism” in the bolshevik sense, the kind somewhat preventing horizontal mobility because why treat a person separately from their collective.
I’ve heard\read there are many racist, paternalist, hierarchical and collectivist traits,
We definitely have all that!
Also, I found it interesting that someone mentioned how you used “collectivist” as a negative feature of Japanese culture. While it certainly could be, it’s actually nice to see when people are genuinely wanting to help each other. The problem is our hierarchical culture where some shitbag on top takes advantage of our collectivist mindset for their own gains.
*Everyone else is working unpaid overtime, why can’t you?! *Almost nobody being worked overtime is going to say that. Workers will take it for the good of the imaginary “team” because some manager convinced them it’s the right thing to do. Luckily, probably thanks to my Canadian upbringing, I’ve always been able to say no to ridiculous shit like this. That, and I work for myself, so the only ones who boss me around are my wife and kids.
Edit: Whoops, maybe collectivism isn’t the right word for what I found to be positive after reading your other comment. Sorry, but I hope you got my point.
TBH sometimes it’s better to have all that explicitly than implicitly and deny it, like most western societies do, because, well, a human society can’t morally raise above the human limitations.
I like the work culture in the Netherlands, on the whole, there’s a focus on work/life balance. I get to spend a day per week with my kids and I only lose 30% of the pay of that day.
After I spend those days, which are 45 total, I can still spend a day in the week with my kid, unpaid. But my boss cannot block me from doing that and needs to keep my 40 hour contract intact for when I want to resume my full-time work.
Also I don’t actually lose 20% of my pay, but due to government help I lose about 12% doing this unpaid day.
It is. It replaces one’s own choices with a collective’s common “choice”, and that is usually substituted with most loud and ambitious people’s choice from inside the collective, or the voices that those from outside prefer to hear from it. Bad all around.
Mutual aid and brotherhood are not collectivism. The philosophy that a group of individuals can be regarded as a subject is, possibly without regard for the comprising individuals.
Like most things, there isn’t an a/b divide but a spectrum between the two, and in this case it’s even more complicated because a society could take a collectivist view about one thing and an individualist view about others.
Say, in ancap finite resources not created by humans (territory, numbers, technologies) are treated as collective property ideally, but since it’s impossible to create anything without them, as private property when mixed with labor. Which means that unused territory belongs to a person who claims it and uses it for something.
And that’s pretty cool, seems like a culture best suited for modern challenges.
I mean, looking at the Lost Decades it seems to be quite the opposite. Sometimes it helps to take things slow, but other times you really have to think “come on get on with the times already”.
Look at right now and consider that Japan still has something appearing to be a democracy. USA and the EU are in the “trade and denial” phase, countries like Russia and Turkey - the obvious, LOL.
That’s because Japan isn’t yet so compromised under the guise of progress.
The only reason Japan isn’t in the same boat as America and Europe (yet, far-right parties are slowly rising in popularity) is that they never got on the immigration train, so their population is mostly homogenous and there are few things for bigots to complain about. Of course, this came with a price; the dismal state of Japan’s industry, academia and economy compared to other first-world countries is at least partially due to their rejection of immigrants. Of course, they can’t keep this up forever, which is why they’ve been recently allowing more immigrants in, fueling the rise of the far-right. Unless they can change rapidly, what Japan is “enjoying” now is the calm before the storm. “Still has something appearing to be a democracy” is how the EU was described five years ago.
The only reason Japan isn’t in the same boat as America and Europe (yet, far-right parties are slowly rising in popularity) is that they never got on the immigration train, so their population is mostly homogenous and there are few things for bigots to complain about.
I think you’ve incorrectly guessed what I call honeypots.
It has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with unaccountable authority.
“Still has something appearing to be a democracy” is how the EU was described five years ago.
Perhaps. But I’m charmed by how they describe Japan as a nation where omnipresent surveillance is still not considered normal. This wasn’t the case with the EU 5 or 10 years ago.
It has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with unaccountable authority.
I mean, they’re two sides of the same coin. Authority capitalizes on bigotry (and division, more broadly) to avoid accountability.
But I’m charmed by how they describe Japan as a nation where omnipresent surveillance is still not considered normal. This wasn’t the case with the EU 5 or 10 years ago.
mean, they’re too sides of the same coin. Authority capitalizes on bigotry (and division, more broadly) to avoid accountability.
Not really, it seems sane, but not always true. Bigotry should be replaced with xenophobia. A phobia of any other group or opinion or anything you haven’t accepted before.
That is - when you call someone a bigot (suppose they are certainly a bigot, a confident Nazi) with the meaning that you don’t have to conduct yourself honorably with them, as if they were guilty just by association, you are likely doing same amount or more of xenophobia than that bigot.
So - EU and USA have plenty of xenophobia which doesn’t fit into their narrow ideas of bigotry. Much more than Japan or any East Asian country, in my subjective feeling.
And, if you have met some real-life nationalists, they might be pretty tolerant people in the sense of xenophobia. Having some idea of society they want to build, but no hate, hostility and dehumanization against you (suppose you are of a different ethnicity). They usually have a project of what the nation looks like, not a cleansing rage.
Those are a really distasteful association, but some of the “separate but equal” types I’ve met were like this too.
In general, the western idea of bigotry has lost its meaning completely. It started with Voltaire, Christian love, openness of mind and preference for resolving conflicts peacefully and with dignity.
Now there are lots of arrogant apes thinking they are enlightened people, sorting everyone around into groups by markers and deeming some unworthy of understanding, attention or honorable conduct. There’s literally nothing in them of the philosophical traditions of liberalism and humanism they pretend to follow.
That’s not what an enlightened human is. And since most people wouldn’t even understand what I said here, I’d say the civilization we took for the final step before some heaven in the 00s is over.
And yes, this means that acceptance of bigotry is clearly good, if it means acceptance of all other similarly divergent ways of thought.
And that’s pretty cool, seems like a culture best suited for modern challenges.
I’ve heard\read there are many racist, paternalist, hierarchical and collectivist traits, but at the same time Japan apparently hasn’t hit those honeypots most of the humanity has.
ugh. “collectivist” is a word coined by western chauvinists. that’s not a real dichotomy. your fucking Abrahamic countries are far more collectivist than us soulless confucianists
Depends on the point in time really. I meant “collectivism” in the bolshevik sense, the kind somewhat preventing horizontal mobility because why treat a person separately from their collective.
We definitely have all that!
Also, I found it interesting that someone mentioned how you used “collectivist” as a negative feature of Japanese culture. While it certainly could be, it’s actually nice to see when people are genuinely wanting to help each other. The problem is our hierarchical culture where some shitbag on top takes advantage of our collectivist mindset for their own gains.
*Everyone else is working unpaid overtime, why can’t you?! *Almost nobody being worked overtime is going to say that. Workers will take it for the good of the imaginary “team” because some manager convinced them it’s the right thing to do. Luckily, probably thanks to my Canadian upbringing, I’ve always been able to say no to ridiculous shit like this. That, and I work for myself, so the only ones who boss me around are my wife and kids.
Edit: Whoops, maybe collectivism isn’t the right word for what I found to be positive after reading your other comment. Sorry, but I hope you got my point.
Well, yes, I got your point and also
TBH sometimes it’s better to have all that explicitly than implicitly and deny it, like most western societies do, because, well, a human society can’t morally raise above the human limitations.
Weird how you say collectivist like it’s a bad thing
I mean, one look at Japanese work culture should be all demonstration you need for that.
Work culture all over the world regardless of culture is fucked up.
I like the work culture in the Netherlands, on the whole, there’s a focus on work/life balance. I get to spend a day per week with my kids and I only lose 30% of the pay of that day.
After I spend those days, which are 45 total, I can still spend a day in the week with my kid, unpaid. But my boss cannot block me from doing that and needs to keep my 40 hour contract intact for when I want to resume my full-time work.
Also I don’t actually lose 20% of my pay, but due to government help I lose about 12% doing this unpaid day.
It is. It replaces one’s own choices with a collective’s common “choice”, and that is usually substituted with most loud and ambitious people’s choice from inside the collective, or the voices that those from outside prefer to hear from it. Bad all around.
Mutual aid and brotherhood are not collectivism. The philosophy that a group of individuals can be regarded as a subject is, possibly without regard for the comprising individuals.
This is incredibly reductionist. Wow.
The irony.
Like most things, there isn’t an a/b divide but a spectrum between the two, and in this case it’s even more complicated because a society could take a collectivist view about one thing and an individualist view about others.
Definitely. Even some abstract ideologies do.
Say, in ancap finite resources not created by humans (territory, numbers, technologies) are treated as collective property ideally, but since it’s impossible to create anything without them, as private property when mixed with labor. Which means that unused territory belongs to a person who claims it and uses it for something.
I mean, looking at the Lost Decades it seems to be quite the opposite. Sometimes it helps to take things slow, but other times you really have to think “come on get on with the times already”.
Look at right now and consider that Japan still has something appearing to be a democracy. USA and the EU are in the “trade and denial” phase, countries like Russia and Turkey - the obvious, LOL.
That’s because Japan isn’t yet so compromised under the guise of progress.
The only reason Japan isn’t in the same boat as America and Europe (yet, far-right parties are slowly rising in popularity) is that they never got on the immigration train, so their population is mostly homogenous and there are few things for bigots to complain about. Of course, this came with a price; the dismal state of Japan’s industry, academia and economy compared to other first-world countries is at least partially due to their rejection of immigrants. Of course, they can’t keep this up forever, which is why they’ve been recently allowing more immigrants in, fueling the rise of the far-right. Unless they can change rapidly, what Japan is “enjoying” now is the calm before the storm. “Still has something appearing to be a democracy” is how the EU was described five years ago.
I think you’ve incorrectly guessed what I call honeypots.
It has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with unaccountable authority.
Perhaps. But I’m charmed by how they describe Japan as a nation where omnipresent surveillance is still not considered normal. This wasn’t the case with the EU 5 or 10 years ago.
I mean, they’re two sides of the same coin. Authority capitalizes on bigotry (and division, more broadly) to avoid accountability.
Fair enough.
Not really, it seems sane, but not always true. Bigotry should be replaced with xenophobia. A phobia of any other group or opinion or anything you haven’t accepted before.
That is - when you call someone a bigot (suppose they are certainly a bigot, a confident Nazi) with the meaning that you don’t have to conduct yourself honorably with them, as if they were guilty just by association, you are likely doing same amount or more of xenophobia than that bigot.
So - EU and USA have plenty of xenophobia which doesn’t fit into their narrow ideas of bigotry. Much more than Japan or any East Asian country, in my subjective feeling.
And, if you have met some real-life nationalists, they might be pretty tolerant people in the sense of xenophobia. Having some idea of society they want to build, but no hate, hostility and dehumanization against you (suppose you are of a different ethnicity). They usually have a project of what the nation looks like, not a cleansing rage.
Those are a really distasteful association, but some of the “separate but equal” types I’ve met were like this too.
In general, the western idea of bigotry has lost its meaning completely. It started with Voltaire, Christian love, openness of mind and preference for resolving conflicts peacefully and with dignity.
Now there are lots of arrogant apes thinking they are enlightened people, sorting everyone around into groups by markers and deeming some unworthy of understanding, attention or honorable conduct. There’s literally nothing in them of the philosophical traditions of liberalism and humanism they pretend to follow.
That’s not what an enlightened human is. And since most people wouldn’t even understand what I said here, I’d say the civilization we took for the final step before some heaven in the 00s is over.
And yes, this means that acceptance of bigotry is clearly good, if it means acceptance of all other similarly divergent ways of thought.