Flying receives far lower subsidies and infrastructure spending than rail. The EU subsidises air travel (including said avgas tax exemption) to the tune of around €30–40 billion annually depending on what you include and what you consider to be a “subsidy.” Using similar criteria, rail is subsidised to the tune of €40–75 billion per year. So rail gets a lot more investment despite it serving 16% fewer travel kilometers per year in the EU than air travel.
I can confirm the 2023, 2024, and 2025 Model Ys all have indicator stalks here in Norway and Denmark
Skoda is part of the VW group, which was found guilty of cheating emissions standards. The environmental damage caused by this is nearly incalculable, but studies indicate 1,200 people dill die prematurely as a result in Europe alone, and 60 in the U.S. They estimate that 2,600 more deaths could have been prevented had VW fully recalled and retrofitted all affected vehicles by 2017 - but they did not.
Hyundai has also been found to be cheating emissions standards, and were found to be using child labour in Alabama.
I’m sorry but if you think a Nazi salute or political donations are worse than child labour and killing thousands of people, I think you need to realign your priorities.
Lastly, Musk clearly doesn’t support tariffs:
Musk said he offers his advice and has been on record voicing his opposition to tariffs.
If you would join me in not buying from VW or Skoda, we could send a message to these companies that killing people and using child labour is wrong.
7% of the population have a “dark triad” personality, meaning they’re high on sociopathy, machiavellianism, and narcissism. Many people out there don’t care about causing pain and harm as long as they’re not personally impacted. This is why any judicial system must account for these people with strong deterrents and harsh punishments for crimes like this. That’s the only thing they respond to.
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One should always be wary of triangular pyramid schemes. They are inherently unstable.
It looks pretty good in terms of price and performance. Worse range, but only about 5%. The big issue is boot space. It’s about half as much. It could be a good option for singles or couples without kids.
It looks like you used ChatGPT here because some of these are incorrect. Especially the boot space for the Tesla. It appears that ChatGPT cited this but Tesla very clearly provides measurements for the boot with the rear seats up: 822L. 938 if we include the frunk. Adac.de is off by 123%. Further, banana boxes are rectangular. They don’t measure the actual capacity of a boot. Most people aren’t strictly loading their boot with rectangular suitcases. We load them up with things like groceries, jackets, golf clubs, and duffel bags. I’m also confused as to why you would use hp instead of 0-100kph. Because of the very different technologies used in these cars, hp doesn’t accurately represent performance. I updated your table with the correct info:
Tesla Model Y AWD LR
Boot space: 822 L + frunk 116 L
0-100kmh: 4.8s
Range: 586 km
Price: 535 813 NOK
KIA EV6 AWD LR
Boot space: 490 L (480 L with premium sound) + frunk 20 L
0-100kmh: 5.2s
Range: 546 km
Price: 519 900 NOK
VW ID.4 GTX Businessline
Boot space: 543 L (no frunk)
0-100kmh: 5.4s
Range: 505 km
Price: 524 272 NOK
Skoda Elroq RS
Boot space: 470 L (no frunk)
0-100kmh: 5.4s
Range: 547 km
Price: 486 700 NOK
BMW i4 xDrive40
Boot space: 470 L (hatch; no frunk)
0-100kmh 5.1s
Range: 533 km
Price: 617 000 NOK
These are some fairly large differences. Especially in terms of boot space, which is quite important for families.
But in my opinion always-on heavy regenerative braking, no indicator stalk, shift buttons in the ceiling, and a complete lack of other buttons, are pretty glaring issues.
The Model Y has always retained the indicator and shift stalks. However I would also prefer more physical buttons.
By buying a Tesla, you are choosing to support a company that actively works against the rules-based international order, and against the interests of the country you live in. You are supporting them with hundreds of thousands of kroner. Our position as consumers is the only way we can effect change in today’s world, and by supporting Tesla you are wasting it.
All of the car companies above have been involved in immoral and illegal activities. Far worse than Tesla, including child labour, slave labour, Nazi collaboration, and Dieselgate. If you wish for people to not purchase from companies which have acted immorally or illegal, which ones do you suggest? Personally, I wish for companies to become more competitive. Shaming people for buying better products doesn’t really work. What works is producing better products.
This and one of the stated intentions is increased control over how people use their funds. For example, digitally blocking transactions for products and services the government deems immoral or illegal. Or preventing any transactions without both parties being formally identified and all of their transactions recorded.
The only good outcome of this is potentially slightly lower fees for merchants.
It’s true that different people value different things. This is why my first comment makes it clear that the metrics which I value (and which tend to feature very high on polling of features which EV customers value) are range, performance, boot space, and (to a lesser degree) software.
I also disagree re suspension and cabin noise. I’ve test driven both the most recent Ioniq 5 and Model Y, and they’re both very good, but I would give the edge to the Model Y. You’d have been correct last year though. The Juniper refresh made some quite substantial updates. If you’re into cars, EVs, or even engineering this video with Jay Leno talking about the engineering of the refresh with Tesla’s Head of Design and VP of Vehicle Engineering was super interesting.
I also prefer buttons and knobs and the EV 6 has more but I have to be honest, I hated the touch buttons. It felt like the worst of both worlds. Totally fair that this is subjective and it obviously clicked well with you.
Ultimately I agree that people should try out all three if they’re in the market (I also have no experience with the Equinox). Our decision came down mostly to the factors we care about the most. I don’t think one needs to feel “severe range anxiety” to prefer an EV with longer range. It might not be a deal breaker, but it’s a very nice thing to have in an EV. That’s the top polled feature for EV buyers. I also agree that driving style make a big difference to range, no matter the EV.
The Ioniq 5 AWD has 11% less range and 9% less boot space and costs 15% more than the Model Y AWD.
The Kia EV 6 has 10% less range and 16% less boot space and costs 7% more than the Model Y AWD.
The Equinox has 7% less range and 9% less boot space and is 65% slower 0-60 (7.6s vs 4.6s).
None of these are comparable unless you pick only one of the metrics and ignore everything else. I also ran a comparison on cheaper variants and the Model Y increased its lead in some categories.
In Norway (and Denmark), for the price, there is nothing which compares for range, performance, boot space, and software with the Model Y. I know it’s taboo on Lemmy to speak well of Teslas but there’s a reason it’s been the best selling car in the world for two years running. It’s a great family car. Prove me wrong. What’s an EV with better range, performance, and boot space for the price?
How dare you imply Elon Musk did anything worthwhile!!!
I am hopeful his last sentence is correct. If we see an explosion of new software out there it creates new markets. Maybe the nature of development will change, and a lot of the rote stuff can be automated, but that frees us up for more interesting and creative tasks. Or at the very least, unfucking the vibe code.
People are going to keep voting further and further right until someone listens to their demands on legal and illegal immigration. In most European countries it is the largest single issue polled. What frustrates me immensely is that so many centrist and left wing parties all over Europe have the opportunity to rein in record high immigration in a sensible and pragmatic way right now - but refuse to do so. They would rather lose the next election and hand over all control of this issue to the right, who will not use care and consideration. They will leave the ECHR and re-write their humanitarian laws to reject all asylum claimants and deport every single person in the country illegally. Refusing to listen to voters and compromise on such a major issue isn’t a principled stance. It just guarantees an even worse outcome.
I think my country of Denmark has a decent balance. I hope other European countries can find balance and compromise. This problem won’t go away on its own. It will get worse until leaders listen to voters. That’s how democracy works - especially if they disagree with the voters.
Given the EU’s appalling track record on privacy and censorship I don’t consider this an upgrade. Any competitor in this space needs to be run outside the control of any major governing body.
Rail is very expensive to build, operate, and maintain. Rail is far more heavily subsidised in Europe than air travel and it’s still more expensive. It also doesn’t respond well to changes in demand. Tracks can’t be easily moved. Flights can easily be redirected. As technology and efficiency improves, flights become cheaper every year. Not rail, however, because most of the cost of operation and maintenance has nothing to do with energy efficiency. This gap will continue to widen. Further, rail has an inherent logistical limitation: all cars share limited lines. They are all limited by the slowest car. They are all stopped when an issue occurs with another car (or tracks). Planes can fly around damage to the network.