American failures are being used to prop up Chinese successes. This is particularly true in urbanism discussions. China is by no means perfect and thinking that they are is harmful to progress.
I’m a fan of their life expectancies surpassing the US - though that’s barely an accomplishment, every developed country seems to have beaten America in that regard lol
The USA is less than 5% of the world’s population but has 24% of the world’s prisoners. Who is authoritarian?
Prisoners in the USA produce over $11Bn worth of goods for for-profit corporations unde slave labor. Who has slave labor?
The USA has camps that concentrate native Americans and South Americans into very small space where they die diseases of poverty and neglect. Who has concentration camps?
The US Congress, upon revelations that the US military was spying on every single American citizen by recording every single phone conversation, text message, and all internet traffic, granted retroactive immunity to all the companies that helped the military do this. Who has an unfettered domestic spying apparatus?
The USA produces almost nothing, yet, the per-capita carbon footprint of America is vastly larger than the per-capita carbon footprint of China. Who spews more carbon shamelessly?
The purchasing power of the average Chinese person is higher than the purchasing power of the average American. In 70 years, China lifted 800 million people out of poverty. In those same 70 years, the US has gotten worse on life expectancy, infant mortality, and maternal mortality. Who exploits their people more?
The USA sterilized black and brown women well into the 1970s under eugenics programs that they started well before the Third Reich.
Everything you think you know about China has come from a wide array of news sources, all of which publish that exact same political line, and all the opposing viewpoints are crushed before they even make it to the editors. Forbes magazine is part of a media empire built by the fortune of the Forbes who built a financial empire funded by the Forbes who built a railroad empire funded by the Forbes that made his fortune selling opium to China when the British literally forced the Chinese to reverse their laws banning opium at gunpoint. Who controls their media?
Your perspective is so thoroughly saturated with centuries of propaganda that you can’t even imagine the idea that it’s wrong. You literally don’t even know what would constitute evidence that you are wrong.
Seriously? Are that uninformed? Literally everything I said is well documented as massively larger on the USA side than on the China side. The USA has always had the largest prison population on the planet per capita, even during the height of the GULAG system in the USSR. There really is no way China is worse. Do some basic research.
What are you talking about no one legally works for 10 cents? The USA prison population produces $11Billion in goods for for-profit companies under slave labor rules, guaranteed legal and constitutional by the very amendment that abolished private slavery. Privately operated prisons in the US use the world’s largest per-capita prison population as slave laborers. Any miniscule compensation the slaves earn they are required to spend buying services from the prison operators, who legally price gouge them on everything. Prisons charge prisoners between $100/day and $350/day to live in prison, which becomes legally binding debt after prisoners are released and failure to pay it back means jail time. The parole system is even larger, with even more people living under constant surveillance and their only responsibility is to get a job to pay back the prisons that held them there.
In nearly every meaningful way the USA is more violent, more callous, more oppressive, more deadly, more negligent, more destructive, and more controlling than China.
Adrian Zenz is the guy. You really should start looking into the sources for more articles you read about China (assuming you read past the headline in the first place). They pretty much all go back to him.
I’m sorry you think I’m a “CCP troll”. I’m not. But I don’t think I’ll convince you, so have a good day.
I get paid 100000000 Xi bucks every time I remove a post. Obviously Lemmy is the most important social media platform in the world that China needs to control at all costs. The communists have even banned brainrot racism on this subreddit.
What do you mean public protest is illegal. Public protests against the zero-covid policy forced the government to ease up on restrictions. I don’t think a single person was sentenced for that tantrum yet somehow China’s prohibiting protests?
Their entire economy is built on the backs of people who are paid pennies per hour.
Yeah Chinese laborers were paid pennies per hour by mostly Western capitalists (and increasingly internal Chinese capitalists). How is that the government’s fault? Chinese law mandates minimum wage increases so they are trying to do something about it and mostly succeeding.
I don’t know why I bothered to even respond. You’re literally a CCP bot who makes these weird allegations against the CCP to make anti-China people look crazy. Be gone from lemmy and make your 50 cents somewhere else. I banish you.
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Edit: Where are all the haters and doubters now? Never, ever underestimate my banishment magic again. It was specifically designed to counter CCP energy back in the 12th century by my landowning ancestors.
And that “tantrum” was people literally having the doors of their homes welded shut so that they couldn’t leave.
That never happened. They welded some doors on apartment buildings so that only one entrance was available, and then screened that entrance for signs of fever. They did this because those doors did not have locking mechanisms, because usually having multiple entrances is a good thing. In the specific context of the pandemic, they wanted to track everyone.
China’s Zero COVID policy was among the best in the world. Obviously they never accomplished Zero COVID, but they saved countless lives while we were marched to our deaths.
when you don’t have to concern yourself at all with what your citizens want or need,
I’m pretty sure humans need to not die from COVID 🙄
Meanwhile, my country didn’t give a shit about the fact that I wanted to be safe.
You know what would have been more effective? Not lying about it and covering it up for several months.
This is just a lie. They announced the discovery COVID on Jan 8, after discovery on Dec 31st. They began limiting travel and started quarantines by Jan 23rd. Hardly “several months”
Dude what in the absolute fuck are you even talking about? Once again, I ask, why would the CCP send people around the internet to talk shit about them? This is a classic Trump tactic of accusing other people of the thing you’re doing. However yours is particularly pathetic and non-sensical. Bye bye now.
For the record, though, any nation-state that got big did all of that. That is literally what industrialization has more or less always looked like. The US used to run sweatshops and disappear/murder activists of any kind, especially the ones who pushed back against the pennies-an-hour sweatshops. It wasn’t until the 20th century that US courts even started reading the First Amendment to mean the government had an obligation to not fuck you up just for your political beliefs (see this title since that’s a larger historical argument than can fit on Lemmy).
You don’t get social freedom and rights in an industrial society until it hits a very high point of development. This has been true of more or less anywhere.
While we could argue China should have looked for a better way to develop, the United States also helped create an international system in the middle of the 20th century where the only real option was to aggressively industrialize in an even worse way than the US did, or just be subject to outright neocolonialism (and then develop your industry also in a bad way, also likely without rights, and then not have a rounded enough economy to do anything other than be exploited by richer countries), and then, when China decided to just take a heavy state-led path that employed capitalism and tools of standard industrial nation-building to set themselves up as a powerful capitalist nation-state, like they were “supposed” to, Western countries, the US in particular, bought in hard and financed everything they’re now recoiling against.
China’s great sin, in this context (and while I’m being slightly sarcastic there, sure, the way they’re industrializing/running shit is bad), was choosing to use their enormous land-mass, resource base, and population to not just be on the very bottom. If America/the West had wanted to see the world industrialize better and more humanely, they should have tried at literally any point to help the world industrialize better and more humanely. At this point, it’s a little absurd for Westerners to complain a situation they created and financed extensively for decades.
I don’t know that I justified it, just pointed out a basic historical truth about industrialization. With a shred of historical context it’s trivial to turn the conversation from “ew China evil” to “is it possible to industrialize without this shit?” which is a question anybody should have been asking from the very beginning.
At the end of the day, lambasting China for doing all the things industrializing nations have always done, without offering a concretely better, alternative path for industrialization, and simultaneously demanding they achieve a similar level of development as the West without doing anything the West did to get there, is honestly just pointless. The West imposed a competitive market system based on the preposterous violence of industrial production on the rest of the world, and are now going to be collectively hoisted by our own petards over the next few decades.
If we wanted them to industrialize without shit like ethnic homogenization/genocide/systematic exploitation of labor/everything else, we might have tried blazing a path to economic development that wasn’t based on those things.
No no no, clearly you’re suffering under Western propaganda. In China there is zero crime and everyone gets a golden car on their 15th birthday. It’s true and If you disagree you’re a propaganda chicken. (/s)
Anyone still trying to pedal the “secret Uyghur genocide” nonsense at this point, long after the Western media has given up on it, and with Isreal showing us what an actual genocide of a captive Muslim population looks like, is either knowingly lying or terminally brainwashed.
Both tbh
American failures are being used to prop up Chinese successes. This is particularly true in urbanism discussions. China is by no means perfect and thinking that they are is harmful to progress.
Perfection doesn’t exist, but China is on the right track imo
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I’m a fan of their life expectancies surpassing the US - though that’s barely an accomplishment, every developed country seems to have beaten America in that regard lol
Totalitarian here meaning: an enemy of the USA
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The USA is less than 5% of the world’s population but has 24% of the world’s prisoners. Who is authoritarian?
Prisoners in the USA produce over $11Bn worth of goods for for-profit corporations unde slave labor. Who has slave labor?
The USA has camps that concentrate native Americans and South Americans into very small space where they die diseases of poverty and neglect. Who has concentration camps?
The US Congress, upon revelations that the US military was spying on every single American citizen by recording every single phone conversation, text message, and all internet traffic, granted retroactive immunity to all the companies that helped the military do this. Who has an unfettered domestic spying apparatus?
The USA produces almost nothing, yet, the per-capita carbon footprint of America is vastly larger than the per-capita carbon footprint of China. Who spews more carbon shamelessly?
The purchasing power of the average Chinese person is higher than the purchasing power of the average American. In 70 years, China lifted 800 million people out of poverty. In those same 70 years, the US has gotten worse on life expectancy, infant mortality, and maternal mortality. Who exploits their people more?
The USA sterilized black and brown women well into the 1970s under eugenics programs that they started well before the Third Reich.
Everything you think you know about China has come from a wide array of news sources, all of which publish that exact same political line, and all the opposing viewpoints are crushed before they even make it to the editors. Forbes magazine is part of a media empire built by the fortune of the Forbes who built a financial empire funded by the Forbes who built a railroad empire funded by the Forbes that made his fortune selling opium to China when the British literally forced the Chinese to reverse their laws banning opium at gunpoint. Who controls their media?
Your perspective is so thoroughly saturated with centuries of propaganda that you can’t even imagine the idea that it’s wrong. You literally don’t even know what would constitute evidence that you are wrong.
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Seriously? Are that uninformed? Literally everything I said is well documented as massively larger on the USA side than on the China side. The USA has always had the largest prison population on the planet per capita, even during the height of the GULAG system in the USSR. There really is no way China is worse. Do some basic research.
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What are you talking about no one legally works for 10 cents? The USA prison population produces $11Billion in goods for for-profit companies under slave labor rules, guaranteed legal and constitutional by the very amendment that abolished private slavery. Privately operated prisons in the US use the world’s largest per-capita prison population as slave laborers. Any miniscule compensation the slaves earn they are required to spend buying services from the prison operators, who legally price gouge them on everything. Prisons charge prisoners between $100/day and $350/day to live in prison, which becomes legally binding debt after prisoners are released and failure to pay it back means jail time. The parole system is even larger, with even more people living under constant surveillance and their only responsibility is to get a job to pay back the prisons that held them there.
In nearly every meaningful way the USA is more violent, more callous, more oppressive, more deadly, more negligent, more destructive, and more controlling than China.
Correct, from the information given in the post above, it seems like America is doing it all on a much larger scale.
Source: your ass.
This is really just common knowledge at this point.
E: looks like the CCP has even infiltrated the mods of this community.
Its actually all sourced from one single guy who has stated it is his mission from God to bring down China.
It’s common knowledge because propaganda is incredibly effective.
LOL what? Which guy is that?
That much becomes more clear to me every day. I didn’t realize there were CCP trolls in Lemmy already.
Adrian Zenz is the guy. You really should start looking into the sources for more articles you read about China (assuming you read past the headline in the first place). They pretty much all go back to him.
I’m sorry you think I’m a “CCP troll”. I’m not. But I don’t think I’ll convince you, so have a good day.
I do. I think it’s about time you gave it a try.
I get paid 100000000 Xi bucks every time I remove a post. Obviously Lemmy is the most important social media platform in the world that China needs to control at all costs. The communists have even banned brainrot racism on this subreddit.
lmao, “everyone who refuses to swallow US propaganda is part of the sissypee”
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What do you mean public protest is illegal. Public protests against the zero-covid policy forced the government to ease up on restrictions. I don’t think a single person was sentenced for that tantrum yet somehow China’s prohibiting protests?
Yeah Chinese laborers were paid pennies per hour by mostly Western capitalists (and increasingly internal Chinese capitalists). How is that the government’s fault? Chinese law mandates minimum wage increases so they are trying to do something about it and mostly succeeding.
I don’t know why I bothered to even respond. You’re literally a CCP bot who makes these weird allegations against the CCP to make anti-China people look crazy. Be gone from lemmy and make your 50 cents somewhere else. I banish you.
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Edit: Where are all the haters and doubters now? Never, ever underestimate my banishment magic again. It was specifically designed to counter CCP energy back in the 12th century by my landowning ancestors.
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That never happened. They welded some doors on apartment buildings so that only one entrance was available, and then screened that entrance for signs of fever. They did this because those doors did not have locking mechanisms, because usually having multiple entrances is a good thing. In the specific context of the pandemic, they wanted to track everyone.
And it worked. There’s a reason 1.1 million people died in the US and 121k died in China.
China’s Zero COVID policy was among the best in the world. Obviously they never accomplished Zero COVID, but they saved countless lives while we were marched to our deaths.
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I’m pretty sure humans need to not die from COVID 🙄
Meanwhile, my country didn’t give a shit about the fact that I wanted to be safe.
This is just a lie. They announced the discovery COVID on Jan 8, after discovery on Dec 31st. They began limiting travel and started quarantines by Jan 23rd. Hardly “several months”
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Dude what in the absolute fuck are you even talking about? Once again, I ask, why would the CCP send people around the internet to talk shit about them? This is a classic Trump tactic of accusing other people of the thing you’re doing. However yours is particularly pathetic and non-sensical. Bye bye now.
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For the record, though, any nation-state that got big did all of that. That is literally what industrialization has more or less always looked like. The US used to run sweatshops and disappear/murder activists of any kind, especially the ones who pushed back against the pennies-an-hour sweatshops. It wasn’t until the 20th century that US courts even started reading the First Amendment to mean the government had an obligation to not fuck you up just for your political beliefs (see this title since that’s a larger historical argument than can fit on Lemmy).
You don’t get social freedom and rights in an industrial society until it hits a very high point of development. This has been true of more or less anywhere.
While we could argue China should have looked for a better way to develop, the United States also helped create an international system in the middle of the 20th century where the only real option was to aggressively industrialize in an even worse way than the US did, or just be subject to outright neocolonialism (and then develop your industry also in a bad way, also likely without rights, and then not have a rounded enough economy to do anything other than be exploited by richer countries), and then, when China decided to just take a heavy state-led path that employed capitalism and tools of standard industrial nation-building to set themselves up as a powerful capitalist nation-state, like they were “supposed” to, Western countries, the US in particular, bought in hard and financed everything they’re now recoiling against.
China’s great sin, in this context (and while I’m being slightly sarcastic there, sure, the way they’re industrializing/running shit is bad), was choosing to use their enormous land-mass, resource base, and population to not just be on the very bottom. If America/the West had wanted to see the world industrialize better and more humanely, they should have tried at literally any point to help the world industrialize better and more humanely. At this point, it’s a little absurd for Westerners to complain a situation they created and financed extensively for decades.
Really not looking for whataboutisms to justify their atrocities…
I don’t know that I justified it, just pointed out a basic historical truth about industrialization. With a shred of historical context it’s trivial to turn the conversation from “ew China evil” to “is it possible to industrialize without this shit?” which is a question anybody should have been asking from the very beginning.
At the end of the day, lambasting China for doing all the things industrializing nations have always done, without offering a concretely better, alternative path for industrialization, and simultaneously demanding they achieve a similar level of development as the West without doing anything the West did to get there, is honestly just pointless. The West imposed a competitive market system based on the preposterous violence of industrial production on the rest of the world, and are now going to be collectively hoisted by our own petards over the next few decades.
If we wanted them to industrialize without shit like ethnic homogenization/genocide/systematic exploitation of labor/everything else, we might have tried blazing a path to economic development that wasn’t based on those things.
This is not true. It’s so cheap to get the goods here because Canada and USA subsidizes the freight services from taxpayer money.
No no no, clearly you’re suffering under Western propaganda. In China there is zero crime and everyone gets a golden car on their 15th birthday. It’s true and If you disagree you’re a propaganda chicken. (/s)
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Anyone still trying to pedal the “secret Uyghur genocide” nonsense at this point, long after the Western media has given up on it, and with Isreal showing us what an actual genocide of a captive Muslim population looks like, is either knowingly lying or terminally brainwashed.
…are you under the impression that this is the first genocide in the history of the human race?
What a complete non-sequitur question.
While the Americans are committing a far worse genocide in Palestine, the Uyghurs are definitely being genocided in China.
In the same way that Saddam “definitely had WMDs” in 2003.
Like I said, anyone still peddling this “secret genocide” conspiracy is knowingly lying or hopelessly indoctrinated.
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Funny you should mention that.
In the future, I recommend you not wade into discussions you don’t know even the bare minimum about.