The competition between the communist USSR and the capitalist USA is what got us there that fast. Seeing how most capitalists seem to have a burning hatred for fundamental research, and the space race wasn’t directly profitable, I’m not sure capitalism alone would have got us there even by now.
Corporations benefit from research, including space research. I bet we’d achieved moon landing with or without either ideology, just with slower pace. But in this case it’s capitalists only who got to the moon.
Insomuch as America was (is?) nominally a capitalistic country. But seeing as the space race was funded with taxpayer dollars, and not private corporations seeking a return on their investments, doesn’t really feel right ascribing the success of the space race to “capitalism.”
Capitalist countries have government involved in the economy. Nothing specific about capitalism or socialism got any of those achievements anyway, but if one is congratulated for the achievements you have to do the other too. Personally I’d just say it was the countries involved and not the ideologies who achieved those things.
They sure do. Just like they, and society as a whole, benefit from fundamental research in general. But since the end goal of fundamental research is “only” knowledge, they never want to properly fund it (and usually cry about their taxes funding it too).
Scientists got to the moon. Capitalism simply had a massive incentive to make their scientists achieve it first at the time and actually gave them the required level of funding to achieve it.
I’m fine with not ascribing that achievement to either economic model or ideology. It happened within those systems but mostly just as a way for the two countries to compete. If it was two socialist states or two capitalist states that had a heated rivalry you might see the exact same thing.
Private sector was heavily involved in it. It feels like we’re going to strange lenghts to dedicate achievements to one system and to deny them from the other. Capitalist US got to the moon, socialist USSR did other amazing space achievements. If anything to me it seems like neither should get the credit. Give it to the countries who made them happen and the people behind the projects instead of economic systems.
I mean, the private sector was by needs involved, because a space program requires industrial supply chains, and those were mostly private. They never would have achieved it without collective, government action. (Even SpaceX only exists because of NASA.) Saying that “capitalism did it,” when it manifestly did not, because of oversimplifications like “capitalist US” is misleading. At best, capitalist in that use is synecdoche. At worst, it’s political woo woo, since the US is far from pure capitalism.
In capitalism those supply chains are most often filled by private sector. Government still does stuff in most capitalist systems and is involved in the economy. It’s not not capitalism when the government does stuff.
the US is far from pure capitalism
This is an interesting reversal of how this discussion usually goes. But there’s no “pure capitalism”. Capitalism is a massive spectrum.
And it’s not like getting to space was some feature of either system, rather just result of US and USSR having a massive rivalry about it. You could’ve had that between two capitalist or socialist countries with the same result.
I mean if socialism is celebrated for the other space achievements then seems as sensible to celebrate capitalism for the moon
The competition between the communist USSR and the capitalist USA is what got us there that fast. Seeing how most capitalists seem to have a burning hatred for fundamental research, and the space race wasn’t directly profitable, I’m not sure capitalism alone would have got us there even by now.
Corporations benefit from research, including space research. I bet we’d achieved moon landing with or without either ideology, just with slower pace. But in this case it’s capitalists only who got to the moon.
Insomuch as America was (is?) nominally a capitalistic country. But seeing as the space race was funded with taxpayer dollars, and not private corporations seeking a return on their investments, doesn’t really feel right ascribing the success of the space race to “capitalism.”
Capitalist countries have government involved in the economy. Nothing specific about capitalism or socialism got any of those achievements anyway, but if one is congratulated for the achievements you have to do the other too. Personally I’d just say it was the countries involved and not the ideologies who achieved those things.
They sure do. Just like they, and society as a whole, benefit from fundamental research in general. But since the end goal of fundamental research is “only” knowledge, they never want to properly fund it (and usually cry about their taxes funding it too).
Scientists got to the moon. Capitalism simply had a massive incentive to make their scientists achieve it first at the time and actually gave them the required level of funding to achieve it.
I’m fine with not ascribing that achievement to either economic model or ideology. It happened within those systems but mostly just as a way for the two countries to compete. If it was two socialist states or two capitalist states that had a heated rivalry you might see the exact same thing.
It’s kinda hard to give credit to capitalism for that when it couldn’t have happened without heavy government involvement.
Private sector was heavily involved in it. It feels like we’re going to strange lenghts to dedicate achievements to one system and to deny them from the other. Capitalist US got to the moon, socialist USSR did other amazing space achievements. If anything to me it seems like neither should get the credit. Give it to the countries who made them happen and the people behind the projects instead of economic systems.
I mean, the private sector was by needs involved, because a space program requires industrial supply chains, and those were mostly private. They never would have achieved it without collective, government action. (Even SpaceX only exists because of NASA.) Saying that “capitalism did it,” when it manifestly did not, because of oversimplifications like “capitalist US” is misleading. At best, capitalist in that use is synecdoche. At worst, it’s political woo woo, since the US is far from pure capitalism.
In capitalism those supply chains are most often filled by private sector. Government still does stuff in most capitalist systems and is involved in the economy. It’s not not capitalism when the government does stuff.
This is an interesting reversal of how this discussion usually goes. But there’s no “pure capitalism”. Capitalism is a massive spectrum.
Yeah, I agree with this take honestly.
If you credit solely Capitalism for getting to the moon, then you have to solely credit socialism for getting to space.
And it’s not like getting to space was some feature of either system, rather just result of US and USSR having a massive rivalry about it. You could’ve had that between two capitalist or socialist countries with the same result.