I believe their identity is valid and fully support it, but see the religious connection as ridiculous. That is not to say that I have a problem with spiritual or supernatural beliefs, I just don’t believe people should be indoctrinating each other and basing policy or laws on it. Basically spirituality should be something people use to work on their own issues not force those issues on other people.
You can’t disentangle religion from gender in someone who has a religious gender identity. You’re making the same mistake as the transphobes we have here in the west. Those transphobes think they can disentangle gender identity from sports, or from children. But gender identity touches everything and you have to respect all of it or you’re not respecting any of it. You have to respect people’s freedom of religion in order to respect religious genders.
I respectfully disagree. I believe that expecting NBs to be shamans/priests is the same thing as telling women to “shut up and make me a sandwich” or telling young boys to “stop crying and act like a man”. it’s just another societally imposed gender role.
People have a tendency to socially isolate people who are different. Tribal communities tend to push autists and genderqueer folk into the role of shaman too. It’s a phenomenon heard about during the 5 year period where I smoked way too much weed and accidentally became a certified shaman.
Yeah okay but if a trans woman says “I like being a loving wife” and you say “You’re not a wife”, you’re not actually liberating her. Even if the social category of “wife” is damaging to those it’s forced onto, you can’t repair that damage by forcibly taking it away from trans people.
I’m not saying that, I’m saying “tradwife” isn’t a gender identity. It can a be a valid part of someone’s identity and one traditionally associated with being a woman. it’s just a chosen aspect of their identity. Gender isn’t a choice and tying it to professions and societal expectations isn’t healthy.
I didn’t say tradwife, I said wife. Wife is a gender identity, and it’s also a social role. Things can be both and you can’t take them away from people who want them.
We’re clearly not going to come to any meaningful consensus. So I don’t think continuing to argue is in either of our interests. I would always refer to terms like wife and husband as an expression of gender identity rather than the gender identity itself. But if you define things differently that’s fine. My education is in neuroscience so I think of gender as being hard wired into our brains and universal across cultures. Any chosen labels I would regard as expressions of gender rather than Inherently part of it. And something I’ll gladly leave to psychologists and anthropologists.
I don’t respect any religious beliefs.
Do you respect the identities of the Bissu priests of Indonesia as mixed-gender emissaries to their god?
I believe their identity is valid and fully support it, but see the religious connection as ridiculous. That is not to say that I have a problem with spiritual or supernatural beliefs, I just don’t believe people should be indoctrinating each other and basing policy or laws on it. Basically spirituality should be something people use to work on their own issues not force those issues on other people.
You can’t disentangle religion from gender in someone who has a religious gender identity. You’re making the same mistake as the transphobes we have here in the west. Those transphobes think they can disentangle gender identity from sports, or from children. But gender identity touches everything and you have to respect all of it or you’re not respecting any of it. You have to respect people’s freedom of religion in order to respect religious genders.
I respectfully disagree. I believe that expecting NBs to be shamans/priests is the same thing as telling women to “shut up and make me a sandwich” or telling young boys to “stop crying and act like a man”. it’s just another societally imposed gender role.
People have a tendency to socially isolate people who are different. Tribal communities tend to push autists and genderqueer folk into the role of shaman too. It’s a phenomenon heard about during the 5 year period where I smoked way too much weed and accidentally became a certified shaman.
Yeah okay but if a trans woman says “I like being a loving wife” and you say “You’re not a wife”, you’re not actually liberating her. Even if the social category of “wife” is damaging to those it’s forced onto, you can’t repair that damage by forcibly taking it away from trans people.
I’m not saying that, I’m saying “tradwife” isn’t a gender identity. It can a be a valid part of someone’s identity and one traditionally associated with being a woman. it’s just a chosen aspect of their identity. Gender isn’t a choice and tying it to professions and societal expectations isn’t healthy.
I didn’t say tradwife, I said wife. Wife is a gender identity, and it’s also a social role. Things can be both and you can’t take them away from people who want them.
We’re clearly not going to come to any meaningful consensus. So I don’t think continuing to argue is in either of our interests. I would always refer to terms like wife and husband as an expression of gender identity rather than the gender identity itself. But if you define things differently that’s fine. My education is in neuroscience so I think of gender as being hard wired into our brains and universal across cultures. Any chosen labels I would regard as expressions of gender rather than Inherently part of it. And something I’ll gladly leave to psychologists and anthropologists.