What is the usecase for drives that large?
I ‘only’ have 12Tb drives and yet my zfs-pool already needs ~two weeks to scrub it all. With something like this it would literally not be done before the next scheduled scrub.
It’s to play Ark: Survival Evolved.
What’s scrubbing for?
A ZFS Scrub validates all the data in a pool and corrects any errors.
there was a time i asked this question about 500 megabytes
I too, am old.
I’m amazed it’s only $800. I figured that shit was gonna be like 8-10 thousand.
Well, it’s a Seagate, so it still comes out to about a hundred bucks a month.
Why do you wound me like this?
Yeah, I expected it to level out around $800 after a few years, not out of the gate. 20TB are still $300 ish new.
Me who stores important data on seagate external HDD with no backup reading the comments roasting seagate:
Uh oh!!! Uh oh uh oh uh oh uh oh
This hard drive is so big that when it sits around the house, it sits around the house.
This hard drive is so big when it moves, the Richter scale picks it up.
This hard drive is so big when it backs up it makes a beeping sound.
This hard drive is so big, when I tried to weigh it the scale just said “one at a time please”.
This hard drives so big, that two people can access it at the same time and never meet.
Is it worth replacing within a year only to be sent a refurbished when it dies?
Use redundancy. Don’t be a pleb.
That’s a lot of porn. And possibly other stuff, too.
Nah, the other stuff will all fit on your computer’s hard drive, this is only for porn. They should call it the Porn Drive.
I “only” have a 1TB SDD. If I wanted to download a new game I would have to delete one that’s already on here.
It isn’t as much as you think, high resolution, high bitrate video files are pretty large.
Especially VR files
And possibly other stuff, too.
Ehhh don’t test me
Sorry but without a banana for scale it’s hard to tell how big it really is
36 Typical Bananas
28 plantains
That quite large then.
I wonder how many pictures of nude bananas you could fit inside??
Depending on the quality you want to deal with, at least 3.
I’m gonna need like 6 of these
monkey’s paw curls They’re SMR
Seems fine with a couple TB of SSDs to act as active storage with regular rsyncs back to the HDDs. This is fine.
The first copy of anything big will suck ass… and why else would you get a 36TB drive if not to copy a lot of data to it?
My primary storage use-case is physical media backups. I literally don’t care how long it takes to store, a bluray is 70GB and I’ve got around 200 of em to backup.
Does it really matter that much if the first copy takes a while though? Only doing it once and you don’t even have to do it all in 1 go. Just let it run over the weekend would do though.
no thanks Seagate. the trauma of losing my data because of a botched firmware with a ticking time bomb kinda put me off your products for life.
see you in hell.
I had a similar experience with Samsung. I had a bunch of evo 870 SSDs up and die for no reason. Turns out, it was a firmware bug in the drive and they just need an update, but the update needs to take place before the drive fails.
I had to RMA the failures. The rest were updated without incident and have been running perfectly ever since.
I’d still buy Samsung.
I didn’t lose a lot of data, but I can certainly understand holding a grudge on something like that. From the other comments here, hate for Seagate isn’t exactly rare.
I can certainly understand holding grudges against corporations. I didn’t buy anything from Sony for a very long time after their fuckery George Hotz and Nintendo’s latest horseshit has me staying away from them, but that was a single firmware bug that locked down hard drives (note, the data was still intact) a very long time ago. Seagate even issued a firmware update to prevent the bug from biting users it hadn’t hit yet, but firmware updates at the time weren’t really something people thought to ever do, and operating systems did not check for them automatically back then like they do now.
Seagate fucked up but they also did everything they could to make it right. That matters. Plus, look at their competition. WD famously lied about their red drives not being SMR when they actually were. And I’ve only ever had WD hard drives and sandisk flash drives die on me. And guess who owns sandisk? Western Digital!
I guess if you must go with a another company, there’s the louder and more expensive Toshiba drives but I have never used those before so I know nothing about them aside from their reputation for being loud.
And I’ve only ever had WD hard drives and sandisk flash drives die on me
Maybe it’s confirmation bias but almost all memory that failed on me has been sandisk-flash storage. Zhe only exception being a corsair ssd which failed after 3 yrs as the main laptop drive + another 3 as a server boot and log-drive.
Every manufacturer has made a product that failed.
but not every manufacturer has had class action lawsuits filed against their continued shitty products.
but then wd and their fake red nas drives with smr tech?
what else we have?
Wait… fake? I just bought some of those.
they were selling wd red (pro?) drives with smr tech, which is known to be disastrous for disk arrays because both traditional raid and zfs tends to throw them out. the reason for that is when you are filling it up, especially when you do it quickly, it won’t be able to process your writes after some time, and write operations will take a very long time, because the disk needs to rearrange its data before writing more. but raid solutions just see that the drive is not responding to the write command for a long time, and they think that’s because the drive is bad.
it was a few years ago, but it was a shitfest because they didn’t disclose it, and people were expecting that nas drives will work fine in their nas.
they were selling wd red (pro?) drives with smr tech
Didn’t they used to have only one “Red” designation? Or maybe I’m hallucinating. I thought “Red Pro” was introduced after that curfuffel to distinguish the SMR from the CMR.
I don’t know, because haven’t been around long enough, but yeah possibly they started using the red pro type there
I’ve had a couple random drop from my array recently, but they were older so I didn’t think twice about it. Does this permafry them or can you remove from the array and reinitiate for it to work?
well, it depends. if they were dropped just because they are smr and were writing slowly, I think they are fine. but otherwise…
what array system do you use? some raid software, or zfs?
Can someone recommend me a hard drive that won’t fail immediately? Internal, not SSD, from which cheap ones will die even sooner, and I need it for archival reasons, not speed or fancy new tech, otherwise I have two SSDs.
I think refurbished enterprise drives usually have a lot of extra protection hardware that helps them last a very long time. Seagate advertises a mean time to failure on their exos drives of ~200 years with a moderate level of usage. I feel like it would almost always be a better choice to get more refurbished enterprise drives than fewer new consumer drives.
I personally found an 8tb exos on servedpartdeals for ~$100 which seems to be in very good condition after checking the SMART monitoring. I’m just using it as a backup so there isn’t any data on it that isn’t also somewhere else, so I didn’t bother with redundancy.
I’m not an expert, but this is just from the research I did before buying that backup drive.
If you’re relying on one hard drive not failing to preserve your data you are doing it wrong from the jump. I’ve got about a dozen hard drives in play from seagate and WD at any given time (mostly seagate because they’re cheaper and I don’t need speed either) and haven’t had a failure yet. Backblaze used to publish stats about the hard drives they use, not sure if they still do but that would give you some data to go off. Seagate did put out some duds a while back but other models are fine.
The back blaze stats were always useless because they would tell you what failed long after that run of drives was available.
There are only 3 manufactures at this point so just buy one or two of each color and call it a day. ZFS in raid z2 is good enough for most things at this point.
My WD Red Pros have almost all lasted me 7+ years but the best thing (and probably cheapest nowadays) is a proper 3-2-1 backup plan.
Hard drives aren’t great for archival in general, but any modern drive should work. Grab multiple brands and make at least two copies. Look for sales. Externals regularly go below $15/tb these days.
Word for the wise, those externals usually won’t last 5+ years of constant use as an internal.
I’ve got 6 in a random mix of brands (Seagate and WD) 8-16Tb that are all older than that. Running 24/7 storing mostly random shit I download. Pulled one out recently because the USB controller died. Still works in a different enclosure now.
I’d definitely have a different setup for data I actually cared about.
Elaborate please?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-behind-the-infamous-seagate-bsy-bug/
this thread has multiple documented instances of poor QA and firmware bugs Seagate has implemented at the cost of their own customers.
my specific issue was even longer ago, 20+ years. there was a bug in the firmware where there was a buffer overflow from an int limit on runtime. it caused a cascade failure in the firmware and caused the drive to lock up after it ran for the maximum into limit. this is my understanding of it anyway.
the only solution was to purchase a board online for the exact model of your HDD and swap it and perform a firmware flash before time ran out. I think you could also use a clip and force program the firmware.
at the time a new board cost as much as a new drive, finances of which I didn’t have at the time.
eventually I moved past the 1tb of data I lost, but I will never willingly purchase another Seagate.
In my case, 10+years ago I had 6 * 3tb Seagate disks in a software raid 5. Two of them failed and it took me days to force it back into the raid and get some of the data off. Now I use WD and raid 6.
I read 3 or 4 years ago that it was just the 3tb reds I used had a high failure rate but I’m still only buying WDs
I had a single red 2TB in an old tivo roamio for almost a decade.
Pulled out this weekend, and finally tested it. Failed.
I was planning to move my 1.5T music collection to it. Glad I tested it first, lol.
Thanks, yeah that makes sense.
Pretty sure I had a bigger hard drive than that for my Amiga. You could have broken a toe if you’d dropped it.
with this I can store at least 3 modern “AAA” games
Oh definitely, game sizes are getting extreme and I prefer smaller indie games now 🥲
More like zero, cause modern AAA games require an NVME (or at least an SSD) and this is a good old fashioned 7200 RPM drive.
Surely no games actually require a SSD?
A lot of modern AAA games require an SSD, actually.
On top of my head:
Cyberpunk, Marvel’s Spider-Man 2, Hogwarts Legacy, Dead Space remake, Starfield, Baulder’s Gate 3, Palworld, Ratchet & Clank: Rift ApartForza Horizon 4 and 5 don’t say they require an SSD I think, but when I had it on my hard drive any cars that did over 250kph caused significant world loading issues, as in I’d fall out of the world because it didn’t load the map.
Forza Horizon 4 actually does include an SSD in its requirements. Thank you for reminding me about that.
It does technically work without it, just don’tgo over A class, don’t do sprints and there was 1 normal circuit that’s a tad big in a forest bit
If a game isn’t fully playable without an SSD, then I consider it a requirement.
Ever try playing Perfect Dark without an Expansion Pak back in the day? It’ll technically work, but you’ll get locked out of 90% of the game, including the campaign. Similar thing with SSDs today.
Cyberpunk literally has an HDD mode, I play it of an HDD every day.
With sufficient ram to load everything in you’ll just have longer load times, no hdd hitchiness
Both Cyberpunk and BG3 work flawlessly on the external USB hard drive that I use. The loading times suffer a bit, but not to an unplayable degree, not even close
Indeed, as others have said this isn’t a hard requirement. Anyone with a handheld (e.g. Steam Deck) playing off a uSD card uses a device that’s an order of magnitude slower for sequential I/O
It’s not a hard requirement.
But it is a hard drive requirement.
I can personally guarantee that it is a hard requirement for Spider-Man and Ratchet
That’s not how computers work, but sure bro.
Okay well try telling that to my computer when the games wouldn’t run without constantly freezing to load assets every few seconds.
They stream data from it while you play, so if you don’t have an SSD you’ll get pauses in game play.
Sure, you might.
But Baulder’s Gate 3 for example, which claims to require an SSD in it’s system requirements runs just fine on a HDD.
It’s just the developer making sure you get optimal performance.
Makes me shudder. I have to replace a drive in my array, because it is degraded. It’s a 4TB. Imagine having to replace one of these. I’d much rather have a bunch of cheaper drives, even if they are a bit more expensive per TB, because the replacement cost will eventually make the total cost of ownership lower.
Also, repeat with me: “Please give me a Toshiba or Hitachi, please”
So if you have been around long enough you might remember the Hitachi (IBM) deathstars https://wizardprang.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/the-last-deathstar/
I see Hitachi and think no fucking way, where as Seagate I used to see as an always yes. Now I just stick the disks in a zfs array and call it done
What I’m really waiting for is large capacity ssds with sata.
Until you run out of ports or cage space 😂
deleted by creator
I wanna fuck this HDD. To have that much storage on one drive when I currently have ~30TB shared between 20 drives makes me very erect.
Average Lemmy user
Ain’t nothing about me is average except for the size of my cock.
Your array sounds pretty average to be fair
nephew
Hello! 👋
Why does this have so many up votes
Check the post title ;)
Hello
Hello
Well, largest this week. And
Yeah, $800 isn’t a small chunk of change, but for a hard drive of this capacity, it’s monumentally cheap.
Nah, a 24TB is $300 and some 20TB’s are even lower $ per TB.
I paid $600+ for a 24 TB drive, tax free. I feel robbed. Although I’m glad not to shop at Newegg.
Yes, fuck Newegg (and amazon too). I’ve been using B&H for disks and I have no complaints about them. They have the Seagate Ironwolf Pro 24TB at $479 currently, but last week it was on sale for $419. (I only look at 5yr warranty disks.)
I was not in a position to take advantage as I’ve already made my disk purchase this go around, so I’ll wait for the next deep discount to hit if it is timely.
Christ, remember when NewEgg was an actual store? Now they’re just a listing service for the scum-level of retailer and drop shippers. What a shame.
I hate amazon but haven’t been following stuff about newegg and have been buying from them now and then. No probs so far but yeah, B&H is also good. Also centralcomputer.com if you are in the SF bay area. Actual stores.
Newegg was the nerd’s paradise 10+ years ago. I would spend thousands each year on my homelab back then. They had great customer service and bent over backwards for them. Then they got bought out and squeezed and passed that squeeze right down to the customers. Accusing customers of damaging parts, etc. Lots of slimeball stuff. They also wanted to be like amazon, so they started selling beads, blenders and other assorted garbage alongside tech gear.
After a couple of minor incidents with them I saw the writing on the wall and went to amazon who were somewhat okay then. Once amazon started getting bad, I turned to B&H and fleaBay. I don’t buy as much electronic stuff as I used to, but when I do these two are working…so far.
What is B&H?
I’ve recently bought a series of 24TB drives from both Amazon and Newegg. Each one I got was either DOA or shortly thereafter. I just gave up but I would love to have a better source.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1809439-REG/seagate_st24000nt002_ironwolf_pro_22tb_3_5.html
They are a retailer in NYC. Their specialties (historically) lie in photography and all the tech surrounding that.
Omg I really have been out of the loop. I originally filled my 8 bay NAS with 6tb drives starting back in 2018. Once they would fill, i added another. 3 years ago, I finally ran out of space and started swapping out the 6tb for 10tb. Due to how it works, I needed to do 2 before I saw any additional space. I think i have 3 or 4 now, and the last one was 2 years ago. They did cost around $250 at the time, and I think i got 1 for just over $200. The fact that I can more than double that for only $300 is crazy news to me. Guess I am going to stop buying 10tb now. The only part that sucks is having to get 2 up front…
I bought 8TB for something like $300. 36TB seems quite attractive.
Depends on your use case. The linked drive according to seagate’s spec sheet is only rated for about ~6.5 power-on hours per day(2400 per year). So if just in your desktop for storage then sure. In an always (or mostly) on NAS then I’d find a different drive. It’ll work fine but expect higher failure rates for that use.
I got some 16TB drives recently for around $200 each, though they were manufacturer recertified. Usually a recertified drive will save you 20-40%. Shipping can be a fortune though.
EDIT: I used manufacturer recertified, not refurbished drives.
Refurbished drives sound scary. Any data to point towards that not being a problem?
As mentioned by another user, all drives fail, it’s a matter of when, not if. Which is why you should always use RAID arrangement with at least one redundant drive and/or have full backups.
Ultimately, it’s a money game. If you save 30% on a recertified drive and it has 20% less total life than a new one, you’re winning.
Here’s where I got some.
https://serverpartdeals.com/collections/manufacturer-recertified-drives
I looked around a bit, and either search engines suck nowadays (possibly true regardless) or there are no independent studies comparing certified and new drives.
All you get mostly opinion pieces or promises by resellers that actually, their products are good. Clearly no conflict of interest there. /s
The best I could find was this, but that’s not amazing either.
What I do is look at backblaze’s drive stats for their new drives, find a model that has a good amount of data and low failure rate, then get a recertified one and hope their recertification process is good and I don’t get a lemon.
I would absolutely not use refurbs personally. As part of the refurb process they wipe the SMART data which means you have zero power-on hours listed, zero errors, rewrite-count, etc - absolutely no idea what their previous life was.
If you’ve got a RAID array with 1 or 2 parity then manufacturer recertified drives are fine; those are typically drives that just aged out before being deployed, or were traded in when a large array upgraded.
If you’re really paranoid you should be mixing mfg dates anyway, so keep some factory new and then add the recerts so the drive pools have a healthy split.
Yep staggering manufacturing dates is a good suggestion. I do it but it does make purchasing during sales periods to get good prices harder. Better than losing multiple drives at once, but RAID needs a backup anyway and nobody should skip that step.
I mean a backup of a RAID pool is likely just another RAID pool (ideally off-site) – maybe a tape library if you’ve got considerable cash.
Point is that mfg refurbs are basically fine, just be responsible, if your backup pool runs infrequently then that’s a good candidate for more white label drives.
Thanks! It seems too risky for something like a hard drive.
