There are a few countries like Sweden and India that are pushing more and more towards all digital payments and slowly trying to wean off cash. I think this is terrible for a number of reasons.
The big one is I work on the side as an electrician from my day job. I get paid in cash (it’s usually only like 5-10 hours a week). I save up that money and have been paying my plumber or tile guy for work that I don’t want to tackle on my own at my house. There’s a whole undercurrent of labor and an economy that gets paid in cash that does not need uncle Sam’s prying eyes. I imagine it will be a long time before banks would stop taking cash in countries pushing for everything to be digital, but who knows.
The other reason is the more vulnerable people in society. You can’t tell me that making everything cashless and only payable via smart phone doesn’t massively screw someone over who’s homeless. A lot of people only get by via panhandling and if suddenly they can’t buy food or ride public transit without a phone that is connected to cell service, that is a massive barrier.
Lastly, all cash restaurants and bars. They’re still common in my area. Things are usually a little cheaper there and I like paying cash for a few drinks. Or like the one bar I go to is still kinda lawless haha, a PBR is $2.
Regarding 2 and 3, theres a qualitative difference between the chinese government mandating corporations respect privacy and not retain or use biometric data and the US doing so (with the EU somewhere in the middle, usually), and what they have historically used that data for.
Regarding 1, in the event of a total societal collapse where not even phone towers are running, I’m not sure how much utility money would have.
Because iso/power failures, lost/broken devices, let alone the government doesn’t need to know every transaction, the inability to gift a displaced person $20, or money in a birthday card.
Wechat and Alipay do all that except the not keeping a record of transactions. There’s tons of food places where the entire payment system is just a printed QR code and they just tell you how much to pay so there’s nothing that can go down except the phone network and wifi.
You can also just give people money, which seems like it shouldn’t work with a credit card because it’s technically a cash advance. There’s been a dozen times where a store that requires everything go through an app so they can make you click through 3 menus advertising discounts if you buy more items wouldn’t work because I didn’t have a Chinese number or something, and the employee would put in the order, then I’d give their personal account the money.
Oh yeah, no in America or Europe, if everyone used an app to do basic functions like buying food, it would be exploited to make everything worse, no shot that it would be regulated in a way that favors the people rather than the banks.
Sure, nothing is lower tech than locked box with a slot in it, except maybe accepting IOUs, but most businesses that handle cash today still go down if power goes out, cell service is a little more reliable though.
I’m not sure how the technology works there, but here, very few businesses even have the old manual card machine that uses carbon copies. I’ve learned to keep a small amount of cash. Plus it’s hot and sticky here, so the squatter that hangs out at the corner shop a few miles away – seldom asks for anything, but if I ask them, they will request a cold soda and occasionally a hot dog
It is not a matter to “want to hide”. It is more a matter to “need to know” access to my personal information. Why government want to know where and when I buy my stuffs? And most important, who will have acces to that? US recently saw that imbecile of Elon Musk being grant access to IRS data.
"want to hide” != Privacy. Maybe I want to donate anonymously. Maybe I want to leave $5 in a community pantry or pay a backyard mechanic. Maybe I want to pay a neighbor for picking up milk for me. Maybe in a world of always on surveillance, it’s a small act of resistance.
Why would it be a failure? I loved never having to carry anything but a phone in China.
There are a few countries like Sweden and India that are pushing more and more towards all digital payments and slowly trying to wean off cash. I think this is terrible for a number of reasons.
The big one is I work on the side as an electrician from my day job. I get paid in cash (it’s usually only like 5-10 hours a week). I save up that money and have been paying my plumber or tile guy for work that I don’t want to tackle on my own at my house. There’s a whole undercurrent of labor and an economy that gets paid in cash that does not need uncle Sam’s prying eyes. I imagine it will be a long time before banks would stop taking cash in countries pushing for everything to be digital, but who knows.
The other reason is the more vulnerable people in society. You can’t tell me that making everything cashless and only payable via smart phone doesn’t massively screw someone over who’s homeless. A lot of people only get by via panhandling and if suddenly they can’t buy food or ride public transit without a phone that is connected to cell service, that is a massive barrier.
Lastly, all cash restaurants and bars. They’re still common in my area. Things are usually a little cheaper there and I like paying cash for a few drinks. Or like the one bar I go to is still kinda lawless haha, a PBR is $2.
Yeah those are all pretty valid. Going cashless requires a lot more from society than just giving everyone an app.
lmao you should see how cheap liquor is in asia.
Regarding 2 and 3, theres a qualitative difference between the chinese government mandating corporations respect privacy and not retain or use biometric data and the US doing so (with the EU somewhere in the middle, usually), and what they have historically used that data for.
Regarding 1, in the event of a total societal collapse where not even phone towers are running, I’m not sure how much utility money would have.
Because iso/power failures, lost/broken devices, let alone the government doesn’t need to know every transaction, the inability to gift a displaced person $20, or money in a birthday card.
Wechat and Alipay do all that except the not keeping a record of transactions. There’s tons of food places where the entire payment system is just a printed QR code and they just tell you how much to pay so there’s nothing that can go down except the phone network and wifi.
You can also just give people money, which seems like it shouldn’t work with a credit card because it’s technically a cash advance. There’s been a dozen times where a store that requires everything go through an app so they can make you click through 3 menus advertising discounts if you buy more items wouldn’t work because I didn’t have a Chinese number or something, and the employee would put in the order, then I’d give their personal account the money.
I don’t have access to those. I’m in the Evil Empire.
Oh yeah, no in America or Europe, if everyone used an app to do basic functions like buying food, it would be exploited to make everything worse, no shot that it would be regulated in a way that favors the people rather than the banks.
There are still power and internet outages possible, climate disasters aren’t going to only hit those who deserve it.
Sure, nothing is lower tech than locked box with a slot in it, except maybe accepting IOUs, but most businesses that handle cash today still go down if power goes out, cell service is a little more reliable though.
I’m not sure how the technology works there, but here, very few businesses even have the old manual card machine that uses carbon copies. I’ve learned to keep a small amount of cash. Plus it’s hot and sticky here, so the squatter that hangs out at the corner shop a few miles away – seldom asks for anything, but if I ask them, they will request a cold soda and occasionally a hot dog
I’ve never even seen a manual carrd reader machine. How does it know if a card is declined?
As goverment can known your card transactions already if needed, then what transactions you want to hide?
The comparison was to cash, not credit cards. The government doesn’t know who I hand cash to.
It is not a matter to “want to hide”. It is more a matter to “need to know” access to my personal information. Why government want to know where and when I buy my stuffs? And most important, who will have acces to that? US recently saw that imbecile of Elon Musk being grant access to IRS data.
"want to hide” != Privacy. Maybe I want to donate anonymously. Maybe I want to leave $5 in a community pantry or pay a backyard mechanic. Maybe I want to pay a neighbor for picking up milk for me. Maybe in a world of always on surveillance, it’s a small act of resistance.