Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its fractious user community to live in a “big tent” after a Debian developer objected to the company’s sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its political position with regard to these two projects.
Hyprland, a Wayland compositor, is led by a “toxic and hateful community,” Beaupré observed, and Omarchy, a Linux distribution, comes from David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), a controversial figure in the Ruby and Linux communities.
its because tech companies are generally so out if touch with their userbase
Tech companies and preventable controversies: name a more iconic duo.
I’m amazed that they haven’t backtracked this yet. They’re just cool losing all those customers.
looking at twitter, there seems to be a pretty good number of fascist techbros who are congratulating framework on this
i guess they don’t mind the change in audience…
I mean, its twitter. Its almost entirely fascist tech bros there.
Theyre not gonna, look at all the comments itt that are ok with giving money to transphobes
It irks me to no end that both here and in the framework community forum people will try to downplay just how awful DHH and their ilk are.
They’ll never say that they don’t mind supporting someone who’s transphobic, or a nationalist, or a racist. Instead they’ll just say that you need to separate the art from the artist, or that you’re just engaging in “purity tests” or whatever other bullshit reason they can throw to absolve themselves from supporting objectively shitty people.
In the current political environment, it’s profitable to have right-wing extremists alignments and they’re aren’t sigh, or even happy to be part of it.
If the sales fall, there would have been or will be a “southpark-sorry.gif”
TL;DR for just updates since the initial story: Basically say that they believe Hyprland cleaned up after having an initial problem and totally ignores all the stuff about DHH, despite that seeming to be the biggest problem people had with what they’ve been doing.
I’ll admit I’m not up to date on the hyprland/vaxry lore – but I don’t understand the level of outrage based on this article…
I’m also not sure why the sponsorship of a software project is necessarily being treated as a 100% endorsement of both the maintainers and their alleged views.
I’m also not sure if infighting and purity testing will help the movement(s) right now. Once it’s the norm, sure, but it’s still a relatively fringe movement within the industry.
Most of the discourse was about Omarchy/DHH, not just Hyprland, though that was a part of it. It is not purity testing to block people who don’t work well with others or are hateful like DHH from a community. If you want to bring people who want us dead into a community then everyone else is going to leave
The main problem is
- Np contributed to and glasses Omarchy
- People wonder why DHH was sponsored with hardware
- Generic response about “big tent” ideology to include everyone - including racists and transphobes like DHH
- People are upset because they don’t want to be in a Nazi Bar
- NP makes twitter post about how people want to ascribe values to him he doesn’t hold, that he’s pro immigrant and pro lgbt
- Np responds in forum thread that they reviewed hyprland and determined that theyd improved their moderation and were ok to sponsor (monetarily)
- Framework responds they’ll make a blog post clarifying their sponsorships
- Blog post coincidentally excludes omarchy
- People question it and basically just get a “we will get that updated” response
- I still dont see it there
You cant claim to be pro immigrant and pro lgbt when you actively invite white supremacists and transphobes into the community and then try to avoid responsibility for that by not commenting or not retracting support or not clarifying how you’d avoid it going forward
The project may not be political (it is) but the people who use and support the project definitely are. If you want to kick out the community by inviting Nazis, then all that will be left once those people leave will be nazis. And if you knowingly collaborate with Nazis, you are a nazi.
I still dont see it there
Because the “update” to the blog post was:
Note that this list does not include products sent for marketing use or R&D use
As a way to not talk about DHH/Omarchy directly, or the promotion they were doing (which was many times more than anything else they were talking about).
Þe comments devolved into flamewars, but it boils down to: if you take money I spend wiþ you and give it to people who want to oppress me, I’m going to stop buying your product.
Þe issue isn’t Framework using Hyprland or Omarchy; it’s þat þey’re giving computers and money - material support - and moral support by talking þose projects up in social media (especially Omarchy).
Þere’s a big difference between using FOSS led by a politically controversial figure, and sending the figure money. Especially when þat money derives from customers said figure openly claims to want to oppress.
If we deleted everything written by insufficiently pure developers, we wouldn’t have a Linux desktop. Especially if we count the ones that were smart enough to not bring up anything political in public.
Not a fan of DHH, but then you delete Rails then there’s no GitHub, GitLab, Mastodon, and many many other things given how popular Rails is, and that’s just that one guy.
If you include all the sketchy stuff that happens in the supply chain mining the minerals, processing, assembly all the way up to the final computer product, you just can’t morally justify supporting any manufacturer either.
This really doesn’t do anything useful other than feeling good to not support one of those guys. If anything it just adds extra political drama that feeds into a much bigger worldwide division problem.
The people who pretend that they can keep politics out of their life are always the people who are benefiting from the current political system. Nobody else in the world is so ignorant.
@Max_P @stewie410 This is just wrong. Taking a stand against things like this causes change for the better in the long run. Rails will survive without DHH, like Linux survived without Reiserfs and MySQL survived after Larry Ellison. There may be some pain involved, but we owe it to ourselves to tread the better path, and make bad people just socially unacceptable.
See also: javascript and Eich
Ah, to live in a world without JavaScript and weird, Nazi crypto dipshits 🥰
This definitely had a negative impact on my view of framework, can’t say I’d buy from them again.
People have opinions. More news at 11
The opinion being debated: “is transphobia bad?”
Here‘s my take as a relatively tech savvy guy with no introspective into the Linux scene and its political affiliation: I’ll buy framework products because of the repairability and upgradability as long as I can run whatever I want on it.
Most consumers that are sustainability minded (like myself) have no clue what hyprland or omarchy is.
I’m sure it’s a big deal within a small niche but the average consumer won’t know or care.
But now that you are aware but you choose to bury your head in the sand. Okay…
We already know people like you already made up your mind. What’s the point of this comment? Was this post going to stop you?
To be honest i just read some abbreviations and terms i dont understand and I really do not have the time to go down the rabbit hole.
I just wanted to add a viewpoint to the discussion that the potential commercial target group larger is than the bubble in which some of the people here seem to be. I find this legitimate.
literally how fascists make their money
I don’t support the views of the endorsed projects, but surely a better reaction would be to suggest alternatives instead of just screaming for outright dismissal? I keep reading that “omarchy is just a bunch of scripts” and “hyperland is just one tiling window manager”. If that’s the case, there probably are better alternatives no? Or if it’s as easy as described why not fork it?
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is not productive, IMO
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is
not productivehow internet outrage operates, IMOFTFY
And yeah, Framework is one of the few manufacturers designing specifically for Linux compatibility and repairability, and omarchy/hyprland Devs are apparently shitty people. If you think they shouldn’t be associated, suggest a different project not run by (possibly) literal Nazis instead of foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently… doesn’t seem that difficult.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests. They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
I don’t think we should work with scum like DHH and vaxry just because some asshole lib might accuse us of purity tests
If “not working with people who are maniacs who want you dead” is a purity test I’m dusting off my Inquisition book
Imagine the downfall of framework being the donations made to some obscure (tankie?) dev that a part of the community does not agree with. This toxic “holier than thou” attitude of the linux community leads to fragmentation and will be the doom of the linux phone project too, I swear. Someone will find an obscure package developed by an asshole/tankie/nazi/whatever and will rage about how the project is now immoral because the project devs support it and insist on a public boycott. Why do some people seem to be unable to separate the software from the developer? Framework or the software dev is not your friend. Is their hardware/software decent and open? Cool, then keep using it, tankie devs be damned, or at least fork it and make your own morally pure version. But this endless bickering over what devs support will lead to nothing good.
Letting shit slide will lead to nothing good.
completely ignores that its about the donations and not “just” using their software.
I’m not a fan of Hyprland nor Omarchy simply because I think they’re both shit products. One is a neon buggy mess and the other is glorified dotfiles.
That being said if articles and posts weren’t constantly made about the devs/creators of both I’d have no clue they’re also backed by morons. And I imagine a good majority of the userbase as no clue. I mean hell just go to any unixporn community be it on reddit, piefed, or lemmy and most posts are going to be hyprland “rices” and I guarantee you those people either don’t know the political leanings of the dev or simply don’t care. the ONLY way you would know is if you hung out in the hyprland discord and honestly…why would you want to do that?
I mean shit I use NixOS and I know of the drama currently surrounding that but I’m not going to stop using NixOS. I like it. I also use Kitty on one of my machines and I know the dev for that is an asshole but I still use it. I know there are some devs at KDE that are dicks but I’ll still use that.
If we stopped using things purely because the devs of whatever thing were assholes then, my guy, that wouldn’t leave us with much to use at all. I mean I could say I will never use Arch because the one dbz fanboy head mod on the arch forums is a total asshole, but that’s not going to happen.
Now it’d be one thing if say the Hyprland dev was using that $5 a month “Hyprland Premium” money to go fund some MAGA group or what have you, THEN you got some ground to stand on. if DHH suddenly started monitizing Omarchy (which, honesltly, wouldn’t put it past him to start doing that soon) then yeah, that’s another thing. But Framework sponsoring some assholes is whatever. If the White House suddenly starts throwing Omarchy and Hyprland on all their rigs then ok, you got every right to be pissed. But right now? man use what you want. If you want to hail DHH’s dotfiles as the second coming of linux, then have at it. if you want to make your windows purple and round and then have your WM slow to a crawl after 4 hours then again, have at it.
I just fucking hate libinput and wish we had better driver options. I am about to switch back to Gnome from Hyperland just because I need to not tab 400 times to get to a field with no mouse or touchpad. God what a shit show.
